WEBVTT

NOTE
This file was generated by Descript <www.descript.com>

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You are now tuned in to
podcast of the paranormal.

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Gab: Hello everybody.

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It's Gabrielle and Jody here.

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Jody: Hello.

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Gab: We have a special episode for you.

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We are going to talk about

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Jody: Another special episode?

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Gab: Well, I think they're
all special, right?

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Jody: To you maybe

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Gab: Whatever.

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So on this episode, we're going to talk
about some research that we've been doing.

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We've brought it up in a few episodes
now, so we wanted to give kind of a more

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in-depth explanation into what we're
working on behind the scenes for everyone

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Jody: Well, let's talk about research.

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Gab: Okay.

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Jody: Cause I love when you
bring this word up and you're

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Gab: Oh my God, you're so annoying

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You're doing research." And
what does that entail for you?

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so for me, it entails  actual research.

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So we're looking into articles that
have been written, that are kind of

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in the field of the topic that we
are exploring with our experiments.

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So we're looking for things that
are similar or things that kind of

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like support what we're exploring.

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Um, people who have done similar,
you know, experiments, had similar

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ideas,  different things like that.

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Looking at research that's been published,
that's been peer reviewed,  and then kind

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of putting that all together in a way  to
kind of explain where we're going where

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we're coming from with our research.

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Jody: so a lot of reading.

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Gab: Yeah a lot of reading.

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Yeah, a lot of reading.

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Yeah.

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And then I think, Okay, I have enough
articles, and then I find another

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idea and I'm like, "Oh," and I start
looking at that, and then there's

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more articles that I'm reading.

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So  just when I think I'm
done, I start all over.

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Yeah.

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Jody: So how much are we gonna say here?

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Gab: I don't know.

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Well, let's just introduce it here.

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So for me, I have probably since
like elementary school really been

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interested in the Salem witch trials.

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Jody: Mm-hmm.

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Here we go again.

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Gotta fit it in

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…  Gab: When I was in high school,
my parents brought us to Salem for

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the first time, and it just kind
of like really fueled my interest.

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And really since then I've been,
Jody hates when I say it, but

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I've been researching the trials.

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like just devouring anything that
I can about them, understanding

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everything about that little specific
bubble in time, what was happening

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in Salem, you know, everything.

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so then that led me to discover
biphasic sleep,  So back at

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the period of the Salem trials

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Jody: I'm just gonna stop you right there.

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We can be talking about our favorite
flavors of ice cream, right?

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And I'll be like, "Ooh, I like, you
know, anything with coconut in it." And

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Gab's like, "You know,  Cotton Mather
had a cow." She will tie this, she will

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tie this subject, into any conversation.

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Gab: Yeah.

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Jody: Any.

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Right?

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We could be out with friends, like
out at a bar or something like

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that, and you're like, "So, did you
know how Cotton Mather got killed?

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how

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he was executed?

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He was pressed to death."

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Gab: That wasn't Cotton Mather.

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Jody: Oh, goddammit.

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Fail.

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Gab: That was Giles Corey.

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Jody: Giles Corey, there we go..

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Gab: Mm-hmm.

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And it's actually a French word.

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I forget what it's called.

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Jody: It's a pressing with the

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stones, right?

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Yeah.

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They'd

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use like a door or-

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Gab: Yeah.

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it's French-

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Jody: of wood or somethhing

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Gab: torture technique they used.

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I forget what it's called.

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It's gonna drive me crazy now.

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Thanks.

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Jody: I did?

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Gotcha

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Gab: So  one day I stumble upon
biphasic sleep, which is something they

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were engaging in at the time because
they didn't have artificial light.

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you know, candle wax was really expensive,
so what they were doing is when the sun

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would go down, when it would get dark,
they would kind of wind down for the day,

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go to sleep, sleep a few hours, usually
wake up for about one or two hours, and

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then go back to sleep for a few hours.

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Jody: Now it's safe to say that
at that period of history- they

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didn't have the normal,  like
shift work, the 9:00 to 5:00,

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right?

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Gab: Right.

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That wasn't a thing yet at this time.

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So people would wake up during this
middle-of-the-night period, and anywhere

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from like midnight to 2:00 AM, people
were waking up for an hour or two.

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Some people were engaging
in, like, prayer.

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Some people were completing some
household chores they might have

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to get ready for the next day.

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some people were socializing,  so
they were going out,  like, with other

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neighbors.

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Jody: to me.

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You just meet up at,
like, 2:00 AM every night?

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Gab: Right.

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So I think, this is something I
always think in my head,  When the Fox

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sisters invented spiritualism in their
house, and the mother was bringing

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the neighbors to hear the spirits,
I always imagined that it was taking

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place during that period where they were
waking up in the middle of the night.

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That people were coming over in the middle
of the night during their, like, wakeful

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period  and  listening to these spirits.

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And I could be wrong, but that's
just the way I imagine it happening.

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During their,  you know, one
to two hours, they were coming,

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socializing.

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Jody: not even the same
time period, though,

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Gab: It's not even the
same time period though.

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Well, no.

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But see, they kind of are at this
period where they overlap with the

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Industrial Revolution- which is when we
kind of stopped  sleeping in this way.

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And we began to have artificial light.

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We began to, like, work, like,
you know, all day and all night.

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Factories were coming up, so people
were able to work in factories,

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you know, around the clock

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Jody: that's the 9:00 to 5:00.

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That's the schedule that everybody's
used to in the modern world.

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Gab: Yeah.

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so I always think about that.

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So yeah.

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So that gets me into that, and then I
find this book, I stumble on this book,

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and  that book was really interesting.

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it talked about how it, it was almost
like connecting the dark to, like,

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religion,  which was really interesting.

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And how, you know, when you, like,
re-engage with the darkness, you're,

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like, kind of bringing back, different
primary,  functions of your body

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that were happening during the night
that we don't have happening anymore,

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like physiologically, because we're
using so much artificial light.

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So they were basically saying,
like, if you're engaging in longer

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periods of darkness, things like your
prolactin is going to, like, raise.

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Jody: So is it just  Engaging in long
periods of darkness, like, by basically

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spending more time in the dark?

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You're sort of

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Gab: Well, think about it, right?

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When the sun goes down-

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you don't have artificial light.

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So you're in darkness.

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So from, you know, sometimes 4:00 PM-

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Jody: Mm-hmm

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…  Gab: Sometimes 8:00 PM.

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You know, you no longer have

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light.

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Jody: yeah, it depends
on the time of year.

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Yeah.

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Gab: So you're going to sleep You're
sleeping for maybe four hours.

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You're waking up for an hour or
two, and then you're going back

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to sleep for another four hours

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Jody: And these people
are just rolling with it.

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Like, as the sun is getting, you
know, farther from the planet and

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all that, and- you have the different
seasons, and you get, you know, less

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light throughout the winter, and then
more light throughout the summer.

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They're just sort of rolling with it.

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They're living with the
natural light cycle.

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Gab: Yes.

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Yeah.

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It was kind of guiding their lives
in a way because again, the wax to

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burn candles at night was expensive,
so they couldn't really burn a candle

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for like three to four hours at night
or multiple candles to do things.

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So they would just kind of  adapt
with the darkness and go to sleep.

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Jody: Whereas we're forcing ourselves to
basically stay awake till a certain point-

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Gab: Right

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… Jody: sleeping for eight
hours through, and then waking

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up at a certain time in the

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the morning.

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Gab: To an alarm clock.

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Jody: They're kind of just like, you
know, "All right, the sun's down."

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"It's time to wind down."

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you know,

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Gab: their's is like a
more natural sleep pattern.

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Jody: Yeah.

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The sun's up, wake up with the sun,
whenever that is at the time of year.

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Gab: Right.

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Jody: Yeah.

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Gab: Yeah.

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It's like we go to bed 'cause it's
dark, we sleep, we wake up, we do a

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couple things, we go back to sleep,
we wake up, we go about our chores

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for the day, our job for the day.

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Jody: Mm-hmm.

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Gab: You know?

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Yeah.

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So it's a lot different than
the way that we live our lives.

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So I get into the book, and the
book made an idea come to me,

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Jody: it spawned a, uh- light bulb.

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Gab: A hypothesis So then
I involved Jody in my idea.

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And  so the official hypothesis that
we have is, um, so we're using a

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qualitative study to explore whether
re-engaging with natural cycles of

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darkness can facilitate the reemergence
of latent psychic abilities, which may

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have diminished due to the pervasive
influence of modern society and

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its relevance on artificial light

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So we've been kind of exploring
that for about eight months now

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Jody: Well, I mean-

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Gab: Well, it's about six months.

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We plan on exploring it through different
experiments for about another two months.

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Jody: We had a really hefty test run there
there for a month- Yeah … if you recall.

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Yeah, we, we went every single
night for a month straight.

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Gab: Yeah.

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That was hard.

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Jody: Yeah, that was tough.

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Gab: Yeah.

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Jody: I did find myself going
to bed earlier at night,

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though.

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Gab: Yeah, it was nice.

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Jody: And, uh, I was able to wake up-

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Gab: Yeah

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Jody: easier in the morning so-

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Gab: Yeah, I agree.

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Yeah.

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Jody: Strangely enough, I
mean, we were exhausted,

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Gab: We were.

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But so then what we would do is we
would go to sleep for… It started,

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like Jody said, every day for a month.

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We started in October ironically.

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And every day we would go to bed earlier.

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We were going to bed
around, like, 8:00 at night.

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we were going, like, completely dark
and, like, trying to fall asleep by 9:00.

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We would sleep for about four hours.

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We would wake up for an hour, sometimes
more, sometimes two hours, and then

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we would sleep for another four hours.

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and we had to keep in mind the time that
I would have to get up in the morning

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because I was the one who gets up earlier.

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Jody: And I work from home so
it's not a real job, right?

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Gab: No it is a I'm just saying
you get up late, like, your

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job starts later than mine.

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Jody: no i know.

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Gab: So I have to get up earlier
to get ready to then drive to work.

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Jody: Yeah.

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Gab: So we had to keep that in mind.

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So that's kind of where we got
our, like, start time to start

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winding down for the night.

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Um, so we would go full
dark, no light in the room.

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The only thing that we would do
is, um, during our wakeful period-

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Jody: We talked about- we
talked about using candles.

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Gab: Mm-hmm, but we didn't
think it was gonna be

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safe.

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Jody: So we had a, a little
bit of a compromise with that.

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Gab: Yeah so we used like, um, like
artificial candles, like LED candles.

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Yeah, so we had a little bit of light.

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But then towards the end,
like now we don't really, I

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don't even use the candles.

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Right.

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I just sit in the dark.

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I don't mind it

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Jody: I don't mind it 'cause
a lot of the times I'll have a

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blindfold on so it doesn't matter.

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Doing creepy weird things

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Gab: But for me it was like, it's
also helped me get used to the

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dark and accustomed to the dark,
' cause I was afraid of the dark.

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But now, I mean, at least in our
bedroom,  I'm okay to be in the dark.

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But if I was out of the house, I'd
probably be more afraid just because

00:11:22.218 --> 00:11:24.541
I'm not familiar with, like, that space.

00:11:25.508 --> 00:11:25.958
You know?

00:11:26.268 --> 00:11:28.664
But in our room I'm
comfortable in the dark now.

00:11:29.164 --> 00:11:34.533
Basically we're waking up and we're
doing different types of paranormal

00:11:34.533 --> 00:11:39.613
experiments, to see if we are
able to connect with any spirits.

00:11:39.963 --> 00:11:43.266
We were doing things, like we were
bringing in different spiritualist

00:11:43.296 --> 00:11:47.940
practices, different modern practices,
different types of equipment we were

00:11:47.940 --> 00:11:53.411
utilizing just to see,  if there was
anything that we would be able to connect

00:11:53.411 --> 00:11:59.767
with by engaging in more time in the
dark  And we've moved from … So we

00:11:59.767 --> 00:12:01.847
spent an entire month doing it once a day.

00:12:02.647 --> 00:12:07.147
And then we moved into, after that
month,  we kind of took like a little

00:12:07.147 --> 00:12:08.997
bit of a break 'cause we were exhausted.

00:12:09.447 --> 00:12:15.007
Um, and then we moved into
doing like twice a week.

00:12:15.727 --> 00:12:18.427
We would wake up, like Fridays
and Saturdays we would wake

00:12:18.447 --> 00:12:19.677
up and do the experiments.

00:12:19.677 --> 00:12:21.287
And now I think we're down to once a week.

00:12:21.317 --> 00:12:22.157
Jody: Yeah, once a week.

00:12:22.257 --> 00:12:22.657
Gab: Yeah.

00:12:23.007 --> 00:12:28.977
And then we plan to, in June for our
anniversary, um, we plan to go to like

00:12:28.977 --> 00:12:33.757
a dark skies park and spend the night
and try to do some experiments there.

00:12:34.253 --> 00:12:36.183
Jody: Ooh, we gotta get some
camping equipment then, huh?

00:12:36.480 --> 00:12:37.000
Gab: No.

00:12:37.210 --> 00:12:37.359
You

00:12:37.365 --> 00:12:37.751
Jody: No.

00:12:37.799 --> 00:12:38.299
Gab: can camp in your car

00:12:38.951 --> 00:12:41.871
Jody: Well, that's not, that's
not gonna be comfortable at all

00:12:42.123 --> 00:12:43.533
Gab: I think it'd be more
comfortable in a tent.

00:12:44.243 --> 00:12:44.833
Yeah,

00:12:44.863 --> 00:12:45.863
we could bring the van

00:12:46.863 --> 00:12:47.334
Jody: Oh, that's true.

00:12:47.334 --> 00:12:48.184
We could bring the van.

00:12:49.184 --> 00:12:51.534
Gab: So yeah, so for me, I love research.

00:12:51.802 --> 00:12:55.782
So if I get the chance to kinda
like really dig my hands into

00:12:55.792 --> 00:12:59.532
different articles, a literature
review, like that makes me happy.

00:12:59.942 --> 00:13:04.772
So then I was kind of able to bridge
that gap by bringing, you know, my

00:13:04.772 --> 00:13:10.422
passion for research into my love for
the paranormal, and it's just kind of

00:13:10.472 --> 00:13:14.212
really been something that I'm really
enjoying, being able to combine the two.

00:13:14.762 --> 00:13:19.519
So we kind of started at like how these
sleep cycles affect our body,  and

00:13:19.519 --> 00:13:23.779
how losing that due to the Industrial
Revolution has caused us to lose the

00:13:23.779 --> 00:13:28.079
connection to something that we're
not even aware that we lost, right?

00:13:28.079 --> 00:13:31.889
We don't know it's gone because
we're so far from when this

00:13:31.889 --> 00:13:36.157
Industrial Revolution began that
we don't even know what we've lost.

00:13:36.942 --> 00:13:40.292
And then I started to focus
on, you know, our prolonged

00:13:40.322 --> 00:13:41.852
exposure to artificial light.

00:13:42.692 --> 00:13:48.801
And then started to explore how paranormal
phenomena affects our sleep  And then

00:13:49.331 --> 00:13:51.311
we started our research experiments.

00:13:51.391 --> 00:13:56.701
Now we have an advantage because we are
married, so we live together, we're able

00:13:56.701 --> 00:13:58.651
to coordinate our schedules really easily.

00:13:58.651 --> 00:14:03.201
We don't have to like plan to be together
on a certain date and time, we just are.

00:14:03.931 --> 00:14:09.971
So, that was when we started doing
the experiments, and then that was

00:14:09.971 --> 00:14:14.151
when we had the biggest breakthrough,
that we've had through this.

00:14:14.641 --> 00:14:17.281
We connected to something that we lost.

00:14:20.101 --> 00:14:22.221
Which was just quite recently too.

00:14:22.511 --> 00:14:27.821
But it opened up like a whole new path
for investigation for us, and that's

00:14:27.821 --> 00:14:30.961
kind of like around the time where you'll
start to see us talking about different,

00:14:31.101 --> 00:14:34.561
perspectives and theories within the
paranormal field, where we're getting

00:14:34.561 --> 00:14:38.191
like a little bit more scientific and
more kind of like into the weeds than

00:14:38.191 --> 00:14:41.821
most people are, where they're just
exploring that entertainment aspect.

00:14:41.831 --> 00:14:46.601
But we really feel like we've kind of
unlocked something that was hidden,

00:14:47.601 --> 00:14:49.501
Jody: I mean, I think we should
mention that we're not, you

00:14:49.501 --> 00:14:50.901
know, we aren't scientists.

00:14:50.901 --> 00:14:53.926
We aren't… You know, we're
kinda doing this on our own.

00:14:54.654 --> 00:14:55.044
You know what I mean?

00:14:55.084 --> 00:14:55.334
Gab: Yeah.

00:14:55.334 --> 00:14:57.394
I mean, this isn't something
that's like peer reviewed.

00:14:57.884 --> 00:14:58.174
No.

00:14:58.174 --> 00:14:59.324
There's no funding for this.

00:14:59.354 --> 00:15:02.814
This is just something that we're
doing and taking advantage of the

00:15:02.814 --> 00:15:06.414
fact that we're a married couple
and, you know, able to do these

00:15:06.414 --> 00:15:06.848
things.

00:15:06.866 --> 00:15:08.026
Jody: It's a neat little experiment.

00:15:08.076 --> 00:15:08.946
Gab: Yeah, it's fun.

00:15:10.084 --> 00:15:15.284
So yeah, so it's opened up that whole new
path for us, and, you know, we're not just

00:15:15.294 --> 00:15:17.484
passive observers with the paranormal.

00:15:17.534 --> 00:15:21.624
We're not just, you know, snapping
a photo of ghosts or recording EVPs.

00:15:21.634 --> 00:15:23.744
Like, we are part of the phenomena.

00:15:24.134 --> 00:15:28.494
We are, like, an essential
component to these experiences

00:15:28.576 --> 00:15:31.036
Jody: We're trying to dig in a
little bit and figure out why

00:15:31.046 --> 00:15:32.537
things work the way they work.

00:15:32.634 --> 00:15:33.018
Gab: Yeah.

00:15:33.038 --> 00:15:37.316
Jody: You know, why people experience what
they experience,  and you know, how,  I

00:15:37.316 --> 00:15:39.076
guess, our minds work in all this, right?

00:15:39.155 --> 00:15:39.478
Gab: Yeah.

00:15:39.496 --> 00:15:39.616
Jody: Our

00:15:39.616 --> 00:15:42.577
bodies Circadian rhythms and-

00:15:43.109 --> 00:15:43.529
Gab: Yeah.

00:15:44.529 --> 00:15:45.939
And it definitely plays into it.

00:15:45.939 --> 00:15:51.739
Like they've even found with different
animals- that even them being exposed to

00:15:51.739 --> 00:15:55.749
artificial light because now, you know,
we have all these cities everywhere that

00:15:55.749 --> 00:15:59.349
they're being exposed to artificial light
at night and how it's affecting them.

00:15:59.759 --> 00:16:00.795
And there's actually,

00:16:00.847 --> 00:16:01.757
Jody: Oh, lightning bugs.

00:16:01.857 --> 00:16:03.267
Lightning bugs are affected now, right?

00:16:03.267 --> 00:16:05.557
Because they're, they get confused
with the artificial light-

00:16:05.567 --> 00:16:07.207
and they're, they're
unable to find each other-

00:16:07.815 --> 00:16:07.965
Gab: Yeah.

00:16:08.237 --> 00:16:11.184
Jody: to mate so we might be the
last generation that actually

00:16:11.184 --> 00:16:12.774
gets to witness the lightning bug

00:16:13.403 --> 00:16:17.032
Gab: And I forget actually, it might,
I don't know what kind of bug it was

00:16:17.412 --> 00:16:21.192
now that you brought that up, but,
in one of the other books I read, it

00:16:21.192 --> 00:16:24.912
said you'd be surprised how many books
exist about the effects of artificial

00:16:24.912 --> 00:16:28.522
lighting on the human body and animals,

00:16:28.802 --> 00:16:29.919
it's really interesting.

00:16:29.929 --> 00:16:32.409
It's a really interesting topic
when even when you remove the

00:16:32.409 --> 00:16:34.149
paranormal, it's an interesting topic.

00:16:34.649 --> 00:16:41.239
So there is actually a genus of bugs,
and they are actually like starting

00:16:41.249 --> 00:16:46.983
to not mate  because they're just so
obsessed with the lights  at night.

00:16:47.123 --> 00:16:50.923
So instead of going out to look for mates,
they're just like obsessed with the light,

00:16:51.373 --> 00:16:54.763
and then it's time for them to go to
sleep, and then they're not really mating.

00:16:54.763 --> 00:16:55.381
They're not-

00:16:55.655 --> 00:16:57.215
Jody: Well, they have
such a short lifespan-

00:16:57.327 --> 00:16:57.803
Gab: Yes

00:16:57.895 --> 00:17:00.045
…  Jody: bugs in general, that,
you know, if they're distracted

00:17:00.055 --> 00:17:01.113
by something else, then-

00:17:01.724 --> 00:17:01.995
Gab: Yeah.

00:17:02.025 --> 00:17:04.275
So they're losing kind of
like their purpose in life

00:17:05.275 --> 00:17:05.375
Jody: Yeah.

00:17:05.585 --> 00:17:07.295
it sounds very similar to
the lightning bug issue.

00:17:08.001 --> 00:17:08.491
Gab: I know.

00:17:08.641 --> 00:17:11.694
It sounds very similar
to people in general.

00:17:12.694 --> 00:17:13.153
You know?

00:17:13.675 --> 00:17:17.533
Like our purpose in life has kind
of become our careers and our jobs.

00:17:17.762 --> 00:17:18.057
Jody: Yeah.

00:17:18.474 --> 00:17:20.883
Gab: You know, we're waking up
every day to an alarm clock.

00:17:20.913 --> 00:17:25.333
We're, you know, we're not engaging in
those natural, like circadian rhythms.

00:17:25.333 --> 00:17:25.483
We're

00:17:25.567 --> 00:17:27.207
Jody: sounds like We're being conditioned.

00:17:28.207 --> 00:17:29.167
That's a whole other rabbit hole.

00:17:30.699 --> 00:17:32.929
Gab: In a way, I we are, right?

00:17:32.969 --> 00:17:34.190
We're conditioned to be.

00:17:34.749 --> 00:17:35.799
Jody: it is the industrial complex

00:17:35.816 --> 00:17:36.049
Gab: Yeah.

00:17:36.109 --> 00:17:36.519
To be like

00:17:36.579 --> 00:17:38.089
members of this society.

00:17:38.776 --> 00:17:39.079
Yeah.

00:17:39.429 --> 00:17:43.429
Instead of, the old ways that
people, you know, people might

00:17:43.429 --> 00:17:46.159
have made their living on their own
where they were their own employer.

00:17:46.179 --> 00:17:51.875
Maybe they were,  , farmers or
creators of some type of tools

00:17:51.875 --> 00:17:53.475
or means that people needed.

00:17:53.485 --> 00:17:54.865
And we don't have that anymore.

00:17:55.415 --> 00:17:55.875
So yeah.

00:17:55.875 --> 00:17:59.715
So we're not gonna spoil everything that
we found, but, you know, I, I do plan

00:17:59.715 --> 00:18:04.335
to write a book about it pretty much
going into like depth on the research

00:18:04.385 --> 00:18:10.535
and the experiments, our methods,
things that we found, you know, all

00:18:10.535 --> 00:18:12.505
that fun stuff that everybody loves.

00:18:13.505 --> 00:18:13.995
But-

00:18:14.031 --> 00:18:14.121
Jody: Is

00:18:14.121 --> 00:18:16.221
there anything in general you
wanna talk about with, as far

00:18:16.221 --> 00:18:17.131
as the experiments go that

00:18:17.141 --> 00:18:17.991
you wanna put out there?

00:18:18.051 --> 00:18:21.615
Gab: I mean, we could share some
stuff from our journals and, you know,

00:18:21.635 --> 00:18:25.505
some theories that we've had that
have gotten us kind of to this point.

00:18:25.825 --> 00:18:29.565
Where we've completely changed
our perspective on this field.

00:18:29.636 --> 00:18:31.131
Jody: I mean, I wouldn't say completely.

00:18:31.131 --> 00:18:35.520
I mean, the investigation stuff is
still, we still very much do that.

00:18:36.520 --> 00:18:37.000
You know what I mean?

00:18:37.000 --> 00:18:38.230
That's not going away.

00:18:38.462 --> 00:18:39.542
Gab: Yeah, but I don't think we do it the

00:18:39.552 --> 00:18:40.082
same

00:18:40.510 --> 00:18:40.530
Jody: No.

00:18:40.580 --> 00:18:43.500
we have a different, uh, yeah, we have
a different mindset now, for sure.

00:18:43.572 --> 00:18:44.062
Gab: Yeah.

00:18:44.372 --> 00:18:48.392
Like, we're not going in like,
"Oh, you know, these spirits are

00:18:48.392 --> 00:18:51.682
here because of X, Y, and Z."

00:18:52.682 --> 00:18:53.102
You know?

00:18:53.142 --> 00:18:58.315
I think we have more of a,  like,
this might be a  A thought form

00:18:58.335 --> 00:19:00.145
kind of approach potentially.

00:19:00.145 --> 00:19:02.105
Like have people created
thought forms here?

00:19:02.115 --> 00:19:03.575
Have they made egregores?

00:19:04.265 --> 00:19:05.698
Some people might call them tulpas.

00:19:06.698 --> 00:19:11.168
Jody: Yeah so basically what Gab's
saying is that the more people go to

00:19:11.168 --> 00:19:14.588
specific locations and investigate
, they're focusing all that energy,

00:19:14.588 --> 00:19:18.176
they're focusing all their thoughts
on very specific spiritual activity.

00:19:19.176 --> 00:19:24.216
And from  the people that are doing this
over and over and over again, they're

00:19:24.216 --> 00:19:25.943
actually kind of creating something-

00:19:26.846 --> 00:19:32.076
So it's almost like bringing to life,
um, these, these entities, right?

00:19:32.169 --> 00:19:32.588
Gab: Yeah.

00:19:32.666 --> 00:19:34.186
Jody: We don't know what
we're interacting with.

00:19:34.196 --> 00:19:40.366
Are we interacting with, um, people's,
you know,  really consolidated

00:19:40.366 --> 00:19:41.906
energies in those locations?

00:19:41.926 --> 00:19:46.810
Or, I hate to even say this,
but a lot of the times I don't

00:19:46.820 --> 00:19:51.200
believe we're communicating
with people that have passed on.

00:19:51.256 --> 00:19:51.726
Gab: Yeah.

00:19:52.726 --> 00:19:53.956
I mean, you might sometimes.

00:19:53.976 --> 00:19:54.396
Jody: Sometimes.

00:19:54.566 --> 00:19:57.471
Gab: But that's like,
you-know, few and far between

00:19:57.971 --> 00:20:00.831
Jody: But with some of our methods of
investigation, you go into these places

00:20:00.831 --> 00:20:03.361
and you're expecting one thing and you
get something completely different.

00:20:03.670 --> 00:20:04.291
Gab: Oh, yeah.

00:20:04.381 --> 00:20:04.761
Jody: You know?

00:20:04.771 --> 00:20:05.101
So.

00:20:06.101 --> 00:20:06.481
Gab: Yeah.

00:20:06.541 --> 00:20:08.321
Jody: kind of what led us down that route

00:20:09.321 --> 00:20:09.611
Gab: Yeah.

00:20:09.611 --> 00:20:14.159
And then you have to also look at
it from, like, the perspective of

00:20:14.169 --> 00:20:18.659
sometimes you're going into these places
and you're being told what spirits

00:20:18.799 --> 00:20:20.569
you need to be looking for there.

00:20:20.729 --> 00:20:20.919
Jody: Mm-hmm.

00:20:21.039 --> 00:20:26.657
Gab: Instead of just being able to,
you know, see for yourself and come

00:20:26.657 --> 00:20:28.017
to that conclusion on your own.

00:20:28.027 --> 00:20:31.157
Like, you're being told what's there,
and then you're using that as your

00:20:31.157 --> 00:20:32.337
framework for an investigation.

00:20:33.051 --> 00:20:35.271
Jody: Well, this goes back to what I've
always been saying, and like, you know,

00:20:35.321 --> 00:20:37.101
I've been saying this for a, a while now,

00:20:37.221 --> 00:20:40.131
I don't like going into
investigations knowing the history.

00:20:40.181 --> 00:20:47.479
'Cause I feel like I don't want those
stories that are told to influence my mind

00:20:47.489 --> 00:20:50.919
and, you know- sort of taint the waters.

00:20:51.125 --> 00:20:51.425
Gab: Yeah

00:20:51.669 --> 00:20:52.059
Jody: You know?

00:20:53.059 --> 00:20:54.069
Gab: Yeah, I agree.

00:20:55.069 --> 00:20:57.299
Jody: I mean, you can't always,
you can't always avoid it.

00:20:57.309 --> 00:21:00.259
Like, we've been to places where
they, you know, you're getting

00:21:00.259 --> 00:21:01.649
the history tour no matter what.

00:21:01.961 --> 00:21:04.641
Gab: Well, I like going
into a place with knowledge.

00:21:05.303 --> 00:21:11.165
Because then that helps me kind
of,  like tailor my investigation

00:21:11.165 --> 00:21:13.345
to the history of a place.

00:21:13.345 --> 00:21:14.285
Like, I'm gonna go-

00:21:14.285 --> 00:21:19.045
to… Like, we're going to, Pennhurst
in a couple weeks, and I'm gonna

00:21:19.055 --> 00:21:23.645
go into that differently than, you
know, I go into any other location.

00:21:24.645 --> 00:21:27.750
And I have to know the history of
that place to be able to do that.

00:21:28.750 --> 00:21:32.140
Otherwise, I'm gonna do a
disservice to any spirit that

00:21:32.140 --> 00:21:34.197
might still be lingering there.

00:21:34.831 --> 00:21:37.071
Jody: Yeah, I think it helps too, like,
especially when we're doing, like,

00:21:37.081 --> 00:21:40.671
uh, Estes sessions, and I'm the one
that's sitting under the headphones.

00:21:40.821 --> 00:21:42.201
I think that helps you a lot.

00:21:42.413 --> 00:21:43.223
Gab: Yeah, it does.

00:21:43.470 --> 00:21:45.321
Jody: Knowing the history and
sort of tying all that together.

00:21:45.321 --> 00:21:47.961
So if you're getting some stuff
that's coming through that's, like,

00:21:48.811 --> 00:21:49.501
relevant-

00:21:49.797 --> 00:21:50.007
Gab: Yeah.

00:21:51.137 --> 00:21:52.947
Jody: You can sort of lean
into that a little bit-

00:21:53.057 --> 00:21:53.867
Yeah … and see where it goes.

00:21:54.697 --> 00:21:55.959
Gab: Like when we were at the Jennie Wade

00:21:55.959 --> 00:21:59.366
house- and we started, to get things
that we didn't even know about, and

00:21:59.366 --> 00:22:00.786
the tour guide was telling us, like-

00:22:00.826 --> 00:22:03.616
"hey, that's connected." Yeah.

00:22:03.726 --> 00:22:04.446
That was interesting.

00:22:04.634 --> 00:22:04.974
Jody: Yeah,

00:22:05.776 --> 00:22:11.816
Gab: But yeah, we did, we did
an experiment where we used, I

00:22:11.816 --> 00:22:14.110
don't know what they're called,
like the cards that we used.

00:22:14.454 --> 00:22:16.384
Jody: Oh, the, um, oh, what are they?

00:22:17.270 --> 00:22:20.206
I hate to even bring this up, but
y'all have seen Ghostbusters, right?

00:22:20.532 --> 00:22:20.872
Gab: Yeah.

00:22:21.872 --> 00:22:24.064
Jody: The first one with Peter
Venkman at the beginning holding the

00:22:24.064 --> 00:22:27.148
flashcards up,  and the, the other
person had to guess, and if they

00:22:27.148 --> 00:22:28.388
got it wrong they would get buzzed.

00:22:28.831 --> 00:22:29.120
Gab: Yeah.

00:22:29.130 --> 00:22:30.308
Jody: Electrocuted,  whatever.

00:22:31.308 --> 00:22:32.648
Oh, what do they call those cards?

00:22:33.010 --> 00:22:33.790
Gab: I don't know.

00:22:33.870 --> 00:22:38.270
I wanna call them like ESP cards
Like they linked back I feel…

00:22:38.270 --> 00:22:39.750
Did they link back to MKUltra?

00:22:40.750 --> 00:22:41.642
Do they

00:22:42.642 --> 00:22:44.412
Jody: wanna say, is it the Zener cards?

00:22:45.412 --> 00:22:46.872
No, it's… Yeah, the Zener cards.

00:22:46.872 --> 00:22:47.372
That's it.

00:22:47.522 --> 00:22:47.752
Yeah.

00:22:47.772 --> 00:22:48.688
It's an ESP deck.

00:22:48.972 --> 00:22:49.312
Gab: Okay.

00:22:49.312 --> 00:22:49.582
yeah.

00:22:49.694 --> 00:22:51.622
Jody: They use them to test ESP.

00:22:52.622 --> 00:22:54.252
So it's a 25-card deck.

00:22:55.252 --> 00:22:57.021
with, uh, like five
different shapes, right?

00:22:57.041 --> 00:22:59.991
Wavy lines, a star, a plus
sign, a square, a circle.

00:23:00.641 --> 00:23:01.261
Gab: And there's a heart,

00:23:02.261 --> 00:23:03.411
Jody: I think some of them have a heart.

00:23:03.421 --> 00:23:03.741
I don't know.

00:23:03.741 --> 00:23:04.881
I don't think the original deck had a

00:23:04.881 --> 00:23:05.261
heart.

00:23:06.261 --> 00:23:07.231
I mean, it, it's possible.

00:23:07.820 --> 00:23:07.971
Gab: You're right.

00:23:07.971 --> 00:23:08.871
I think I made up the heart.

00:23:09.236 --> 00:23:12.301
Jody: yeah, it was five,
different cards: star, plus,

00:23:12.721 --> 00:23:14.971
square, circle, and wavy lines.

00:23:15.201 --> 00:23:16.435
Gab: I call the wavy lines bacon.

00:23:16.831 --> 00:23:17.731
Jody: The bacon card, yeah.

00:23:17.751 --> 00:23:19.581
That's the bacon card
so it looks like, yeah.

00:23:20.471 --> 00:23:23.812
But, um,  we took it, a little further.

00:23:23.812 --> 00:23:26.012
So we had blank cards, and we
were like, "All right, well,

00:23:26.052 --> 00:23:27.832
let's, let's make our own.

00:23:27.842 --> 00:23:28.542
Why not, right?

00:23:28.557 --> 00:23:28.972
Gab: Yeah,

00:23:29.972 --> 00:23:32.506
Jody: And I think, yeah, first of all,
I think it's really interesting when

00:23:32.506 --> 00:23:36.146
you make your own stuff for doing,
like, the weird paranormal stuff.

00:23:36.186 --> 00:23:37.096
I just… I- it's really
cool, it's personal right

00:23:37.146 --> 00:23:37.236
Gab: Right.

00:23:37.236 --> 00:23:39.526
You're putting your own
energy into it into it.

00:23:39.586 --> 00:23:39.616
Jody: Right.

00:23:39.616 --> 00:23:40.116
Exactly.

00:23:40.136 --> 00:23:40.626
Gab: Yeah.

00:23:41.456 --> 00:23:43.406
Jody: So we took it one step
further, and we had the five

00:23:43.406 --> 00:23:45.536
shapes, but we did, was it four

00:23:45.536 --> 00:23:46.006
colors?

00:23:46.627 --> 00:23:47.156
Was it five?

00:23:47.176 --> 00:23:47.466
Gab: Yeah.

00:23:47.486 --> 00:23:48.716
We had 20-

00:23:48.848 --> 00:23:51.736
Jody: Red, green, blue, yellow, and black.

00:23:52.185 --> 00:23:52.489
Right?

00:23:53.474 --> 00:23:53.879
So now

00:23:53.879 --> 00:23:54.079
Gab: yeah,

00:23:54.079 --> 00:23:54.187
Jody: so

00:23:54.396 --> 00:23:54.629
Gab: had 25

00:23:54.819 --> 00:23:55.089
Jody: Yeah.

00:23:55.089 --> 00:23:55.549
Exactly.

00:23:55.729 --> 00:23:58.533
So now instead of, you know, like,
for a 25-card deck, you could have

00:23:58.543 --> 00:24:00.383
five stars, five bacon, whatever.

00:24:00.633 --> 00:24:02.033
Bacon, we'll use, use that for now on.

00:24:02.621 --> 00:24:05.083
Um, now it's, now it's
separated into colors, right?

00:24:05.083 --> 00:24:07.914
So you had a color for each one.

00:24:08.146 --> 00:24:08.506
Gab: Yeah.

00:24:09.506 --> 00:24:10.776
So you had a color and a shape

00:24:11.776 --> 00:24:13.396
Jody: yeah, we, we used that a little bit.

00:24:14.288 --> 00:24:16.278
Gab: Yeah, and we ha-
used it in a few ways.

00:24:16.798 --> 00:24:19.436
Um, the first time we just
kind of tried to guess.

00:24:19.666 --> 00:24:19.996
Jody: Yeah.

00:24:20.528 --> 00:24:20.918
Gab: Right?

00:24:20.938 --> 00:24:23.258
Like, just close your eyes, lay here.

00:24:24.018 --> 00:24:25.908
You know, "Hey, I pulled
a card. What is it?"

00:24:26.198 --> 00:24:29.398
"I pulled a card. What is it?"
And we would keep track of,

00:24:30.005 --> 00:24:30.958
like, what we were guessing.

00:24:30.958 --> 00:24:32.846
I think we did I think we did
that, what like three times each

00:24:32.906 --> 00:24:33.286
Jody: Yeah.

00:24:33.869 --> 00:24:38.148
Gab: And then we switched to, okay,
now let's try this, where you're

00:24:38.408 --> 00:24:41.788
wearing, like, you're basically doing
an Estes session, where you're wearing

00:24:41.788 --> 00:24:44.308
those noise, reduction headphones.

00:24:44.316 --> 00:24:46.026
Jody: I mean, I wouldn't even,
I wouldn't even call it an Estes

00:24:46.126 --> 00:24:48.736
session, because the Estes is
something completely different, right?

00:24:48.896 --> 00:24:53.469
The person going in with the headphones
and the,  the blindfold, their purpose

00:24:53.469 --> 00:24:54.879
is just to repeat what they're hearing.

00:24:55.786 --> 00:24:58.799
So we were kinda like, I don't wanna
say modifying it all, but we were,

00:24:58.829 --> 00:25:00.399
we were feeding in to that person.

00:25:00.399 --> 00:25:02.949
We blindfolded them and fed
in a spirit box to them.

00:25:02.959 --> 00:25:02.999
Right.

00:25:03.359 --> 00:25:07.009
So you have that,  sensory deprivation,
plus the constant,  you know-

00:25:07.404 --> 00:25:07.781
Gab: Yeah

00:25:08.169 --> 00:25:11.029
…  Jody: of channels that kinda, like, you
know, tends to put us in a different mode.

00:25:11.411 --> 00:25:14.641
Gab: Yeah, we were using that almost as
a way to get into, like, a meditative

00:25:14.669 --> 00:25:15.129
Jody: Yeah

00:25:15.129 --> 00:25:15.659
Gab: or trance state.

00:25:15.779 --> 00:25:16.169
Jody: Yeah.

00:25:16.299 --> 00:25:19.089
And then n- the other person
would be pulling the cards.

00:25:19.392 --> 00:25:19.777
Gab: Yeah.

00:25:20.777 --> 00:25:21.727
Jody: Just to see what happened,

00:25:21.727 --> 00:25:21.957
right?

00:25:21.994 --> 00:25:22.349
Gab: Yeah.

00:25:23.349 --> 00:25:23.977
That was interesting

00:25:24.357 --> 00:25:25.267
Jody: And we got some interesting

00:25:25.267 --> 00:25:25.907
results.

00:25:25.917 --> 00:25:26.317
Gab: Yeah.

00:25:26.909 --> 00:25:27.539
We did.

00:25:27.979 --> 00:25:29.139
We were guessing a lot.

00:25:29.619 --> 00:25:30.019
Jody: Well, you…

00:25:30.279 --> 00:25:30.549
Gab: correctly.

00:25:30.549 --> 00:25:31.499
Jody: You specifically.

00:25:32.889 --> 00:25:33.507
Gab: Yeah, that was interesting.

00:25:33.557 --> 00:25:36.397
Jody: And you're normally terrible
at, like, the Estes Method

00:25:36.447 --> 00:25:37.707
Gab: Oh my God, I'm so bad

00:25:37.817 --> 00:25:37.897
Jody: And again,.

00:25:37.897 --> 00:25:40.267
like I'm saying this is not like we're
using the Estes method, because that

00:25:40.267 --> 00:25:41.617
methodology is completely different.

00:25:41.617 --> 00:25:42.197
We were just-

00:25:43.179 --> 00:25:44.187
we were kind of poking around.

00:25:44.334 --> 00:25:45.837
Gab: Just to have like the white noise

00:25:45.868 --> 00:25:46.157
Jody: Yeah

00:25:46.157 --> 00:25:48.617
Gab: …to kind of, you know, like
now you're separated from that other

00:25:48.617 --> 00:25:49.107
person.

00:25:49.197 --> 00:25:49.557
Jody: Yes.

00:25:49.647 --> 00:25:50.157
Yeah.

00:25:50.467 --> 00:25:51.847
Gab: But can you still pick out- the cards

00:25:52.087 --> 00:25:52.349
Jody: Right.

00:25:53.637 --> 00:25:53.897
Yeah.

00:25:54.037 --> 00:25:54.367
Gab: Yeah.

00:25:54.387 --> 00:25:55.867
And surprisingly, we were

00:25:56.169 --> 00:25:56.347
able to-

00:25:56.347 --> 00:25:57.887
Jody: Don't say we.

00:25:57.957 --> 00:26:02.254
I was able to get, uh, you
know, and we probably didn't

00:26:02.254 --> 00:26:03.636
do this extensively enough.

00:26:04.386 --> 00:26:05.046
Gab: we only did it once.

00:26:05.424 --> 00:26:06.374
Jody: No, it was more than once, I think

00:26:07.224 --> 00:26:07.504
Gab: No, I think.

00:26:07.504 --> 00:26:08.454
we only did it the one night.

00:26:08.764 --> 00:26:10.084
Jody: Yeah, so we gotta
jump back into that

00:26:10.084 --> 00:26:10.424
and do that

00:26:10.424 --> 00:26:10.704
again.

00:26:11.357 --> 00:26:15.864
But I was able to pick, I believe,
the shape Or the color half the time.

00:26:15.966 --> 00:26:15.976
Gab: Mm-hmm

00:26:16.634 --> 00:26:18.654
Jody: And, um, you did one pull.

00:26:18.654 --> 00:26:22.174
We did three cards,  and you got the
shape and the color for two of those

00:26:22.476 --> 00:26:22.936
Gab: Yeah.

00:26:23.936 --> 00:26:24.146
Yeah.

00:26:24.146 --> 00:26:24.336
it was

00:26:24.336 --> 00:26:24.726
crazy.

00:26:24.764 --> 00:26:25.814
Jody: that was pretty wild, yeah.

00:26:26.786 --> 00:26:27.526
Gab: It was pretty cool.

00:26:28.416 --> 00:26:29.026
It was fun.

00:26:29.106 --> 00:26:29.966
We should do it again.

00:26:30.696 --> 00:26:33.296
We haven't done, though, the one
thing that I really wanna do.

00:26:33.376 --> 00:26:33.656
Jody: What's that?

00:26:33.666 --> 00:26:37.976
Gab: I wanna try a seance I mean, if you
think about it, we've done the Estes a few

00:26:37.976 --> 00:26:42.726
times, which is like an electronic,
you know, mediumship, but I'd really

00:26:42.726 --> 00:26:45.496
like to do just like a full on seance

00:26:46.496 --> 00:26:48.074
Jody: Well, I think you got
some reading to do then.

00:26:49.930 --> 00:26:50.084
Gab: already read enough- about it

00:26:50.084 --> 00:26:52.833
Jody: Well, you have your book on seances.

00:26:52.923 --> 00:26:53.123
Gab: Mm-hmm.

00:26:54.363 --> 00:26:54.670
Yeah it would be fun

00:26:54.720 --> 00:26:57.990
Jody: think the hardest part is,
like, conducting these experiments

00:26:58.000 --> 00:26:59.504
in a way that, makes sense.

00:26:59.977 --> 00:27:00.404
Gab: Yeah.

00:27:00.854 --> 00:27:03.474
Jody: That you could repeat the
experiment and actually, like

00:27:04.474 --> 00:27:06.161
Collect and put the data together

00:27:06.811 --> 00:27:09.521
That's the hardest part 'cause that month
that we were doing that every night-

00:27:09.820 --> 00:27:10.145
Gab: yeah.

00:27:10.175 --> 00:27:12.285
We were journaling, Yeah.

00:27:12.301 --> 00:27:13.181
Jody: That was our data collection.

00:27:13.181 --> 00:27:16.021
But that was kind of like, I
feel like that was a, a soft run.

00:27:16.495 --> 00:27:16.905
Gab: Yeah.

00:27:17.905 --> 00:27:18.315
Jody: You know?

00:27:19.121 --> 00:27:19.999
Gab: Yeah, definitely

00:27:20.999 --> 00:27:21.469
Jody: So what are your thoughts?

00:27:21.469 --> 00:27:25.119
You- is this something we have to do
every night or are you happy with,

00:27:25.599 --> 00:27:27.029
you know, once a week, twice a week?

00:27:27.799 --> 00:27:31.749
Gab: I feel like I would love to have
it be something that we could commit

00:27:31.749 --> 00:27:35.365
to, like, over a, like, 90-day period.

00:27:35.375 --> 00:27:35.925
Jody: Yeah.

00:27:36.045 --> 00:27:37.772
For data collection specifically.

00:27:39.387 --> 00:27:44.324
Gab: And pick, like, so many, like,
methods that we're gonna utilize,

00:27:44.414 --> 00:27:48.584
and then, you know, whether we
rotate them or, you know, for this

00:27:48.584 --> 00:27:51.404
week we're gonna do this, and then
next week we're gonna try automatic

00:27:51.842 --> 00:27:52.262
Jody: Yeah.

00:27:52.424 --> 00:27:52.444
Gab: Yeah.

00:27:52.454 --> 00:27:53.974
you know, different things like that.

00:27:54.034 --> 00:27:57.874
Or do we just kinda do whatever
feels right that night?

00:27:58.184 --> 00:27:59.504
Like, that's kinda what we're doing now.

00:27:59.514 --> 00:28:00.504
Like, I'm like, "You know what?

00:28:00.504 --> 00:28:01.794
Tonight let's do

00:28:01.794 --> 00:28:02.504
this." Yeah.

00:28:02.504 --> 00:28:04.916
"Tonight let's… Oh, let's
try this tonight." You know?

00:28:05.052 --> 00:28:05.362
Jody: Yeah.

00:28:06.362 --> 00:28:07.973
And there's two components
to this too, right?

00:28:08.403 --> 00:28:09.863
There's the, psychic component-

00:28:10.055 --> 00:28:10.415
Gab: Yeah

00:28:10.537 --> 00:28:13.103
Jody: where you wanna test, you
know, our, psychic abilities.

00:28:13.317 --> 00:28:13.645
Gab: Yeah.

00:28:13.703 --> 00:28:15.933
Jody: And then the other
component is, communication.

00:28:16.347 --> 00:28:16.859
Gab: Yeah.

00:28:16.983 --> 00:28:18.413
Jody: Which we use a lot of ITC and-

00:28:19.019 --> 00:28:20.399
Gab: there was the night, what was it?

00:28:20.399 --> 00:28:22.289
Like, um, like a meteor shower, I

00:28:22.299 --> 00:28:22.789
think.

00:28:23.399 --> 00:28:23.509
Jody: Mm-hmm.

00:28:23.509 --> 00:28:26.909
Gab: It was over, like, two or three
nights, and those nights it was

00:28:26.989 --> 00:28:31.516
kind of warm enough that we were
going out on our deck And we were

00:28:31.516 --> 00:28:33.416
doing our experiments out there.

00:28:34.703 --> 00:28:37.033
Yeah, and that was I think
when we started to get up,

00:28:37.643 --> 00:28:38.043
up, up.

00:28:38.093 --> 00:28:38.393
up,

00:28:39.265 --> 00:28:40.075
Jody: up came up a lot, Yeah,

00:28:40.119 --> 00:28:40.451
Gab: Yeah,

00:28:40.503 --> 00:28:41.313
and space.

00:28:41.353 --> 00:28:44.033
I think that was the first time it
really started talking about that.

00:28:44.406 --> 00:28:44.665
Jody: Yeah.

00:28:44.665 --> 00:28:48.155
I feel like our Estes
sessions really changed.

00:28:49.008 --> 00:28:49.533
Gab: Yeah.

00:28:50.533 --> 00:28:51.531
Jody: around the time we were doing that.

00:28:51.925 --> 00:28:53.201
Gab: Yeah, it really has.

00:28:54.201 --> 00:28:56.481
Jody: And it's really around the time
that we started putting together that,

00:28:56.491 --> 00:29:00.851
like, these, these sessions, depending on
the location, really are very different-

00:29:01.228 --> 00:29:01.281
Gab: They-are

00:29:01.281 --> 00:29:02.111
Jody: between the location

00:29:02.317 --> 00:29:02.579
Gab: They are.

00:29:02.579 --> 00:29:05.569
And I think too, a lot of the things
that have to do with the location is,

00:29:06.359 --> 00:29:12.299
I hate to say it, but I'm gonna say
it,  is that, you know, if we're in a

00:29:12.299 --> 00:29:18.189
location with multiple people, and there's
multiple people trying to participate

00:29:18.199 --> 00:29:19.849
in the Estes session, then it's kind

00:29:19.849 --> 00:29:21.329
of like muddying the waters.

00:29:21.439 --> 00:29:21.499
Oh

00:29:21.501 --> 00:29:21.631
Jody: yeah.

00:29:21.631 --> 00:29:21.791
Yeah.

00:29:21.791 --> 00:29:22.841
We've talked about that before.

00:29:23.091 --> 00:29:23.341
Yeah.

00:29:23.361 --> 00:29:30.801
We, 'cause what we try to do now is, uh,
very specifically  a two-person session.

00:29:31.471 --> 00:29:34.051
So you have the one person that's
under, right, the receiver, and the

00:29:34.051 --> 00:29:35.421
one person that's the questioner.

00:29:36.282 --> 00:29:36.302
Gab: Yeah.

00:29:36.302 --> 00:29:36.882
Jody: And that's it.

00:29:36.971 --> 00:29:37.292
Gab: Yeah.

00:29:37.641 --> 00:29:39.191
Jody: Everybody else is an observer.

00:29:39.319 --> 00:29:39.609
Gab: Right.

00:29:39.609 --> 00:29:42.089
You could-- We sometimes have
like that third person takes

00:29:42.089 --> 00:29:42.469
notes or…

00:29:42.801 --> 00:29:43.261
Jody: Which is fine.

00:29:43.291 --> 00:29:43.431
Yeah.

00:29:44.507 --> 00:29:44.567
Gab: Yeah.

00:29:44.567 --> 00:29:44.837
Jody: A third will takenotes-

00:29:44.837 --> 00:29:45.519
Gab: Keeps you on track

00:29:45.551 --> 00:29:47.221
Jody: maybe they know something
about the history of the place.

00:29:47.221 --> 00:29:49.841
"Hey, you know, you should
ask this because, you know…"

00:29:50.531 --> 00:29:53.441
It gets really chaotic when you have- four

00:29:53.441 --> 00:29:55.431
or five people asking
questions of one person or

00:29:55.431 --> 00:29:55.758
under, right?

00:29:56.069 --> 00:29:59.499
Gab: And especially like all, like
if we're in this and Jody is the

00:29:59.499 --> 00:30:04.099
receiver, I'll ask a question,
and I could wait like 25 seconds.

00:30:04.109 --> 00:30:05.249
I'll wait for an answer.

00:30:05.810 --> 00:30:06.909
You know, other people don't.

00:30:07.759 --> 00:30:09.409
They just want, you know, they

00:30:09.409 --> 00:30:10.519
…… want that communication.

00:30:10.519 --> 00:30:12.359
They're like, it's more
fast-paced for them.

00:30:12.669 --> 00:30:13.789
But i'm okay waiting

00:30:13.921 --> 00:30:16.642
Jody: This specifically goes back
to our Estes method episode, right?

00:30:17.162 --> 00:30:19.012
Where we specifically brought this up.

00:30:19.022 --> 00:30:20.372
Two people, that's it, you know?

00:30:20.372 --> 00:30:20.507
Gab: Yeah.

00:30:20.507 --> 00:30:21.942
Jody: And we try to keep it really tight.

00:30:22.662 --> 00:30:24.018
And, that's why we're bringing it up.

00:30:24.252 --> 00:30:27.272
at that point, we had already
done, you know, the experiment-

00:30:28.272 --> 00:30:33.211
Gab: And, we had learned that if it's just
the two of us, it really lets you lock in.

00:30:34.013 --> 00:30:34.271
Yeah.

00:30:34.291 --> 00:30:36.141
Like you're able to have
more of a conversation.

00:30:36.353 --> 00:30:38.412
Jody: I think is great, because then-
Yeah … you're learning, things.

00:30:38.412 --> 00:30:42.546
about these processes that we're using,
to do all this weird shit, right?

00:30:42.574 --> 00:30:42.894
Gab: Yeah.

00:30:42.904 --> 00:30:44.606
Jody: You're learning, hey, this
works better if you do this.

00:30:44.606 --> 00:30:45.836
This works better if you do that.

00:30:46.836 --> 00:30:49.056
You know, even when we're
in outdoor locations, too.

00:30:49.338 --> 00:30:49.714
Gab: Yeah.

00:30:50.714 --> 00:30:53.197
Jody: We're finding that,
the less chaotic it is-

00:30:53.793 --> 00:30:54.165
Gab: Yeah

00:30:54.587 --> 00:30:57.267
Jody: you know, the- The
better results we're getting

00:30:57.683 --> 00:30:58.903
Gab: Yeah, that's true.

00:30:59.355 --> 00:31:01.267
The more you're able to
just kind of like focus.

00:31:02.025 --> 00:31:02.415
Yeah.

00:31:02.595 --> 00:31:06.285
And there's even been, the
last time we did an Estes, I

00:31:06.285 --> 00:31:08.615
fell asleep for a few minutes.

00:31:10.758 --> 00:31:14.728
We had, uh… We were out late, and
instead of going to sleep and waking

00:31:14.728 --> 00:31:18.578
up, we just did the Estes before
we went to sleep, because we're

00:31:18.578 --> 00:31:20.198
also kind of trying that, right?

00:31:20.198 --> 00:31:22.750
We're doing some in the morning, we're
doing some-  in the middle of the day-

00:31:22.750 --> 00:31:22.770
Jody: Yeah

00:31:22.830 --> 00:31:24.280
Gab: we're doing some
before we go to sleep

00:31:24.430 --> 00:31:25.890
Jody: Well, I think that was
out of pure necessity 'cause

00:31:25.890 --> 00:31:26.080
we were-

00:31:26.270 --> 00:31:27.360
we were exhausted at that

00:31:27.360 --> 00:31:27.860
point, but-

00:31:27.860 --> 00:31:29.868
Gab: And I was like, "If we
don't do it now, we're not gonna

00:31:29.868 --> 00:31:30.048
wake up

00:31:30.090 --> 00:31:30.480
Jody: Yeah

00:31:30.480 --> 00:31:32.718
Gab: in like two or three
hours, so let's do it now."

00:31:33.018 --> 00:31:33.320
Jody: Yeah.

00:31:33.778 --> 00:31:36.928
Gab: and use this kind of, you know, as
like a little bit of a variable here and

00:31:36.928 --> 00:31:37.438
test it.

00:31:37.500 --> 00:31:39.700
Jody: Cause sometimes I
just, I sleep like a rock

00:31:39.700 --> 00:31:40.020
and-

00:31:40.020 --> 00:31:40.460
Gab: Yeah.

00:31:40.620 --> 00:31:41.497
Jody: And there's nothing
that's gonna wake me up.

00:31:42.497 --> 00:31:42.761
Right?

00:31:43.279 --> 00:31:45.109
Like the people breaking in
the house every other night.

00:31:46.779 --> 00:31:50.019
And she'll hear, Gabrielle will hear
a noise and she'll get pissed off at

00:31:50.039 --> 00:31:51.479
me because I just, I won't wake up.

00:31:51.479 --> 00:31:52.029
I won't hear it.

00:31:52.093 --> 00:31:52.523
Gab: Yeah.

00:31:52.633 --> 00:31:53.599
Sleeps through everything.

00:31:53.609 --> 00:31:54.509
Jody: She's always telling me,
What do you always tell me?

00:31:55.529 --> 00:31:56.069
Gab: I don't know

00:31:56.185 --> 00:31:57.255
Jody: You're the man of the house.

00:31:57.255 --> 00:31:57.275
Gab: Yeah.

00:31:57.285 --> 00:31:58.903
Jody: You gotta, you gotta
make sure we're safe.

00:31:58.989 --> 00:31:59.549
Gab: You should.

00:31:59.819 --> 00:32:00.870
Should be your concern.

00:32:01.305 --> 00:32:01.345
Jody: You should.

00:32:01.345 --> 00:32:01.445
It should be your concern.

00:32:01.445 --> 00:32:02.625
Sometimes I'm just really tired.

00:32:04.889 --> 00:32:06.339
Gab: You can't sleep on your duties, you

00:32:06.339 --> 00:32:06.599
know?

00:32:06.675 --> 00:32:06.855
Jody: No.

00:32:07.855 --> 00:32:11.105
Gab: So that's kind of where
we are with this right now.

00:32:11.215 --> 00:32:14.995
Jody and I … Like Jody has kind
of been out of the research side and

00:32:15.005 --> 00:32:16.975
more in the like experimental side.

00:32:17.515 --> 00:32:19.035
So do you have any questions, Jody?

00:32:19.411 --> 00:32:22.561
Jody: Well- I do a lot of editing.

00:32:23.561 --> 00:32:27.861
And I have, my job is very, um,
very demanding, so I am happy to

00:32:27.861 --> 00:32:29.471
have Gabrielle do the research.

00:32:29.511 --> 00:32:33.016
She is  able to  it all
together really nicely.

00:32:34.016 --> 00:32:36.625
And, uh, I just review her, her
notes, you know what I mean?

00:32:37.225 --> 00:32:39.322
So  yeah, I don't know.

00:32:39.432 --> 00:32:40.672
I'm happy to participate.

00:32:40.672 --> 00:32:41.952
I'm a willing participant.

00:32:42.944 --> 00:32:46.406
I think where we're going with
this is, I think it's unique.

00:32:46.914 --> 00:32:48.154
Gab: Yeah, definitely is.

00:32:48.804 --> 00:32:50.814
Jody: And it's a fun little
experiment, you know?

00:32:51.104 --> 00:32:54.164
Let's just see what happens
if we're waking ourselves up

00:32:54.164 --> 00:32:54.894
in the middle of the night.

00:32:54.904 --> 00:32:54.924
Yeah.

00:32:55.454 --> 00:32:58.097
I think that's a really
neat thing to touch on, too.

00:32:58.647 --> 00:33:01.789
You're breaking your,
sleep, schedule basically.

00:33:02.229 --> 00:33:02.677
Gab: Yeah.

00:33:03.257 --> 00:33:07.217
Jody: You know, so you're, you're…
Me personally, the first few hours

00:33:07.217 --> 00:33:08.617
of sleep for me are like deep sleep.

00:33:09.617 --> 00:33:13.347
You know, so if I go to bed at like
10:00 at night  Probably till like

00:33:13.879 --> 00:33:15.495
2:00, 3:00 in the morning,  I am dead.

00:33:15.565 --> 00:33:16.175
I'm out.

00:33:17.165 --> 00:33:20.375
And then that first time I
wake up around 2:30, 3:00,  I'm

00:33:20.375 --> 00:33:21.515
a light sleeper after that.

00:33:22.105 --> 00:33:22.995
Gab: Really, that's funny

00:33:22.995 --> 00:33:23.077
Jody: Yeah

00:33:23.087 --> 00:33:25.247
Gab: because research actually
shows it's the opposite.

00:33:26.195 --> 00:33:26.945
Jody: Not for me.

00:33:27.068 --> 00:33:27.388
Gab: Yeah.

00:33:28.228 --> 00:33:32.408
So interestingly enough, when you're
waking up in that wakeful rest period,

00:33:32.458 --> 00:33:36.638
you're still kind of pretty tired and
you're you're not really fully awake,

00:33:36.998 --> 00:33:40.705
so you're kind of almost in, you
know, a liminal space, where you're

00:33:40.705 --> 00:33:42.445
between wake and you're between sleep.

00:33:42.461 --> 00:33:43.193
Jody: Well, that's what I'm saying.

00:33:43.193 --> 00:33:44.253
That's why it's interesting to me-

00:33:44.263 --> 00:33:44.293
Gab: Right

00:33:44.293 --> 00:33:47.123
Jody: 'cause when we were doing the
experiment,  I found the opposite

00:33:47.123 --> 00:33:49.046
of my normal sleep, um, rhythm.

00:33:49.308 --> 00:33:49.644
Gab: Yeah.

00:33:49.772 --> 00:33:52.612
Jody: I was interrupting it for that hour
or two at night when we were waking up.

00:33:52.640 --> 00:33:52.930
Gab: Yeah.

00:33:53.082 --> 00:33:55.522
Jody: So then I was able to
fall asleep, for that second

00:33:55.522 --> 00:33:55.892
sleep.

00:33:56.662 --> 00:33:57.022
You know?

00:33:57.812 --> 00:34:00.996
And, a lot less disturbed I
guess is what I mean by that.

00:34:01.744 --> 00:34:02.132
You know.

00:34:02.932 --> 00:34:04.462
So that's, that's interesting.

00:34:04.636 --> 00:34:05.303
Gab: Yeah, it is.

00:34:06.303 --> 00:34:06.343
Jody: it is.

00:34:06.343 --> 00:34:09.241
Plus you're interrupting your normal
brainwaves and your sleep cycle.

00:34:09.241 --> 00:34:11.683
Gab: Yeah, your normal,
like, routine or pattern

00:34:12.683 --> 00:34:16.480
Jody: I remember being in college and
if I had to write a paper, a lot of the

00:34:16.480 --> 00:34:21.270
times I'd fall asleep you know, early
at, at night, 8:00, 9:00 at night and

00:34:21.270 --> 00:34:23.900
then wake up 1:00, 2:00 in the morning.

00:34:23.900 --> 00:34:26.970
If I had a thought on my mind, I
would just immediately, "All right. I

00:34:26.970 --> 00:34:29.440
gotta put this in the paper. I gotta
put this in my project," you know?

00:34:29.534 --> 00:34:30.014
Gab: Yeah.

00:34:30.440 --> 00:34:32.440
Jody: And ever since that's
just, that's basically how I am.

00:34:32.440 --> 00:34:35.224
I'm, I'm a, I'm a sleep thinker.

00:34:36.044 --> 00:34:36.454
Gab: Yeah.

00:34:36.513 --> 00:34:37.650
Jody: That's how I solve problems.

00:34:37.690 --> 00:34:38.960
I solve problems in my sleep.

00:34:38.960 --> 00:34:42.690
Like I, I do it for work, I do
it for, I mean, just anything

00:34:42.690 --> 00:34:43.740
I'm interested in general.

00:34:44.144 --> 00:34:44.534
Gab: Yeah.

00:34:44.724 --> 00:34:45.114
You do.

00:34:46.050 --> 00:34:48.330
Jody: So it's really, interesting.

00:34:48.720 --> 00:34:51.000
I think this is gonna work well
for the way my brain works.

00:34:52.684 --> 00:34:56.027
Gab: I think the other interesting
thing too that we didn't note is

00:34:56.807 --> 00:34:59.717
that when we first tried this in
October and we were doing this every

00:34:59.717 --> 00:35:02.085
night, we weren't having dreams

00:35:03.013 --> 00:35:04.843
Jody: No, not so

00:35:04.843 --> 00:35:05.273
much.

00:35:05.715 --> 00:35:06.845
Gab: like they were just gone

00:35:07.453 --> 00:35:10.673
Jody: If I would dream it was,
I was dreaming less for sure.

00:35:10.900 --> 00:35:11.325
Gab: Yeah

00:35:12.123 --> 00:35:15.683
Jody: I feel like if I was dreaming
though it was more on that second sleep

00:35:16.683 --> 00:35:19.913
Gab: I'm pretty sure that the research
says that you would remember your

00:35:19.923 --> 00:35:23.289
dreams from your second sleep more
than the dreams from the first.

00:35:23.299 --> 00:35:25.307
Jody: Well, that makes sense
for me too because I, I know

00:35:25.307 --> 00:35:27.407
that when I wake up, when I have
dreams that actually wake me up-

00:35:28.237 --> 00:35:30.561
it's usually in the second
half of my, my night's sleep.

00:35:31.057 --> 00:35:36.569
Gab: There was actually, I forget
who it was, like a scientist who

00:35:36.779 --> 00:35:41.499
would go to sleep,  and he would
put, like he would use a candle-

00:35:42.152 --> 00:35:44.279
and he would put a nail in the candle.

00:35:45.169 --> 00:35:50.079
And when the nail would fall
it would wake him up and then

00:35:50.079 --> 00:35:51.959
he would like note his dreams.

00:35:52.507 --> 00:35:53.709
Jody: Oh, that's like, uh-
Um- … the the edison?

00:35:53.857 --> 00:35:54.217
Thing.

00:35:54.619 --> 00:35:55.429
Gab: Was it Edison?

00:35:55.507 --> 00:35:56.877
Jody: No, no, it wasn't
the candle with him.

00:35:56.877 --> 00:35:57.447
What did he do?

00:35:57.457 --> 00:35:59.167
He, he had a spoon or something.

00:35:59.399 --> 00:35:59.979
Gab: Yeah.

00:35:59.987 --> 00:36:00.237
Jody: Yeah.

00:36:00.307 --> 00:36:04.357
We talked about this with Don, When
the spoon would fall, it would wake

00:36:04.357 --> 00:36:06.957
him up and then he'd immediately
write down his like first thoughts,

00:36:06.957 --> 00:36:08.257
whatever he was thinking at the time.

00:36:08.288 --> 00:36:08.919
Gab: Yeah.

00:36:09.137 --> 00:36:09.407
Jody: Yeah.

00:36:10.407 --> 00:36:11.887
Gab: I can't remember who it was.

00:36:12.207 --> 00:36:15.037
But yeah, that was actually a pretty
common method they used at the time.

00:36:15.037 --> 00:36:19.447
They would use, um, something in a
candle,  and they would know how far,

00:36:19.457 --> 00:36:21.157
like how long it would take to burn-

00:36:21.623 --> 00:36:22.697
down to that depth.

00:36:22.747 --> 00:36:25.307
And then they would put the
candle there and it would wake

00:36:25.307 --> 00:36:27.557
them up, like an alarm clock.

00:36:27.601 --> 00:36:29.048
Jody: You gotta use what
you got, I guess, huh?

00:36:29.397 --> 00:36:29.519
Gab: huh?

00:36:29.519 --> 00:36:29.737
Yeah.

00:36:29.737 --> 00:36:30.517
You really do.

00:36:31.517 --> 00:36:32.447
Jody: lot easier for us now.

00:36:32.447 --> 00:36:33.557
We can just set an alarm on our phone.

00:36:34.507 --> 00:36:35.067
Gab: Right.

00:36:35.147 --> 00:36:39.787
And as long as, you know, my phone lately
has been changing my volume settings

00:36:39.837 --> 00:36:41.643
for like ringers and alerts.

00:36:42.547 --> 00:36:45.637
So sometimes it's like really
low and I don't hear it

00:36:46.207 --> 00:36:47.287
Jody: Is that user error?

00:36:47.809 --> 00:36:49.829
Gab: No, it literally changes it.

00:36:50.159 --> 00:36:51.489
And then I have to go in and change it.

00:36:51.959 --> 00:36:53.217
Jody: oh, it's probably like some adaptive

00:36:53.439 --> 00:36:53.749
Gab: Yeah.

00:36:54.699 --> 00:36:59.259
Some kind of, I don't know what it is,
if it's like an update thing or not, but-

00:36:59.707 --> 00:37:03.027
Jody: God, the AI keyboards
now, that predict what you're

00:37:03.027 --> 00:37:04.637
writing, or typing I should say.

00:37:04.637 --> 00:37:06.617
I frigging hate those, man.

00:37:07.003 --> 00:37:07.409
Gab: Yeah.

00:37:07.597 --> 00:37:10.527
Jody: it wouldn't surprise me if it's
like some kind of AI adaptive learning,

00:37:11.527 --> 00:37:13.351
function or whatever built into the phone.

00:37:13.761 --> 00:37:14.871
Well, that's super annoying.

00:37:15.378 --> 00:37:15.763
Gab: It is.

00:37:15.773 --> 00:37:19.443
It happened to me, I think it
happened to me this week a day, and

00:37:19.443 --> 00:37:20.693
I got up like half an hour late.

00:37:21.211 --> 00:37:21.341
Jody: Ugh.

00:37:22.341 --> 00:37:24.121
Gab: I woke up and the alarm
was like ringy, ringy, ringy,

00:37:26.406 --> 00:37:28.966
And I'm like, "Who's
getting up to that? Not me."

00:37:29.966 --> 00:37:31.226
Jody: So where do you see
us going with this then?

00:37:32.174 --> 00:37:34.064
Gab: To the Dark Skies Park in June.

00:37:35.664 --> 00:37:36.224
Jody: Well, we know that.

00:37:37.754 --> 00:37:38.991
This my annual birthday trip?

00:37:39.729 --> 00:37:40.959
Gab: No, our anniversary trip.

00:37:41.639 --> 00:37:42.769
I thought it would be fun.

00:37:43.341 --> 00:37:43.511
Jody: Yeah.

00:37:43.651 --> 00:37:45.891
Cool, cool Yeah, we should do that.

00:37:46.583 --> 00:37:49.253
Gab: Yeah, A way to, you know, maybe
we end it here, maybe we don't.

00:37:49.263 --> 00:37:49.863
Maybe we keep

00:37:49.863 --> 00:37:50.463
going.

00:37:51.463 --> 00:37:54.673
' Cause that'll put us at eight
months in this experiment.

00:37:54.683 --> 00:37:55.603
We're already at six.

00:37:56.603 --> 00:37:58.762
Jody: Yeah, like I said, I
think we have to dig in again.

00:37:58.772 --> 00:38:03.382
We have to really get into it and Repeat
what we did in October maybe on a larger

00:38:03.382 --> 00:38:06.182
scale and really record everything.

00:38:07.182 --> 00:38:07.202
Gab: Yeah.

00:38:07.202 --> 00:38:10.404
Maybe we could use the Dark
Skies Park as the start of that.

00:38:10.731 --> 00:38:15.282
The start of that like
three-month, 90-day period where

00:38:16.192 --> 00:38:17.162
this is what we're doing every

00:38:17.168 --> 00:38:17.188
night.

00:38:17.188 --> 00:38:18.518
Jody: Yeah, my busiest time at work.

00:38:18.528 --> 00:38:18.968
Let's go.

00:38:19.008 --> 00:38:19.608
Let's go.

00:38:20.142 --> 00:38:23.132
Gab: Well, I think wasn't it in
October during a busy time too?

00:38:24.132 --> 00:38:24.496
Yeah, it

00:38:24.496 --> 00:38:27.116
was hard, 'cause there were nights you
would be working late and I would be

00:38:27.116 --> 00:38:28.696
like, "You need to come to bed right now."

00:38:29.696 --> 00:38:31.356
Jody: Oh my God, I didn't think
you were getting mad at me-

00:38:31.525 --> 00:38:31.880
Gab: Yeah.

00:38:31.996 --> 00:38:34.306
Jody: I'd sleep in a little
longer in the morning.

00:38:34.416 --> 00:38:34.836
Uh.

00:38:37.146 --> 00:38:37.966
She's jealous.

00:38:40.918 --> 00:38:42.434
Gab: It was difficult for sure.

00:38:42.537 --> 00:38:42.742
Like-

00:38:42.842 --> 00:38:42.992
Jody: Yeah

00:38:43.064 --> 00:38:46.924
Gab: there were benefits, but there were
also, you know, drawbacks to it as well.

00:38:47.624 --> 00:38:50.881
It was tough to try to maintain
like, you know, a 40 hour work

00:38:50.881 --> 00:38:56.994
week and try to sleep in this, you
know, antiquated sleep schedule.

00:38:57.994 --> 00:39:01.163
Jody: going back to your question,
You know, if I have anything to add

00:39:01.163 --> 00:39:04.999
to this, I, I just keep going back
to the interrupted sleep cycle.

00:39:05.255 --> 00:39:05.705
Gab: Yeah.

00:39:06.705 --> 00:39:09.837
Jody: And I just equate that to
when you're doing an Estes session.

00:39:10.837 --> 00:39:12.723
I mean, you're sort of
doing the same thing.

00:39:13.723 --> 00:39:14.833
You're conscious, right?

00:39:15.050 --> 00:39:15.300
and

00:39:15.300 --> 00:39:21.491
then when you put those headphones
on and the blindfold, you're sort of

00:39:21.541 --> 00:39:24.001
facilitating a state change, right?

00:39:24.381 --> 00:39:25.051
In your mind.

00:39:25.901 --> 00:39:28.521
You're trying to get into
that, hypnagogic state, right?

00:39:28.531 --> 00:39:30.141
Is it hypnagogic or hypnopompic?

00:39:30.857 --> 00:39:31.127
Gab: I don't remember.

00:39:31.301 --> 00:39:33.311
Jody: One's when you're going to sleep,
one's when you're waking up, whatever.

00:39:33.311 --> 00:39:37.203
Um, But, you're, you're sort of changing
your, the way your brain is working.

00:39:37.213 --> 00:39:38.743
Your, your brainwaves are changing.

00:39:39.743 --> 00:39:45.043
You're becoming, You know, less
aware of what's going on around you.

00:39:45.759 --> 00:39:49.249
And you're sort of just like focusing on
that radio chatter in the background and-

00:39:49.375 --> 00:39:49.805
Gab: Yeah

00:39:50.099 --> 00:39:51.639
Jody: you're getting in
that meditative state.

00:39:51.699 --> 00:39:54.459
Um, so I think it's really interesting
when you're, when we're doing

00:39:54.459 --> 00:39:59.756
this, two sleeps at night  You're
interrupting the first sleep,  which

00:39:59.756 --> 00:40:01.566
is pulling you out of one state.

00:40:02.096 --> 00:40:06.166
Now you're completely conscious, and then
you're going back in when you're done.

00:40:06.236 --> 00:40:07.243
I just think it's-

00:40:07.514 --> 00:40:07.882
Gab: Yeah.

00:40:08.532 --> 00:40:11.632
Jody: It's changes of consciousness,
and I think that's where, that's where

00:40:11.632 --> 00:40:15.757
I'm, I'm really getting, um, I'm really
getting interested in that sort of thing.

00:40:15.984 --> 00:40:16.403
Gab: Yeah.

00:40:17.403 --> 00:40:19.253
Jody: you know, I, I think
it's an interesting experiment.

00:40:20.253 --> 00:40:21.033
Gab: I just looked it up.

00:40:21.473 --> 00:40:24.043
So hypnagogic hallucination-

00:40:24.103 --> 00:40:24.463
Jody: Mm-hmm

00:40:24.513 --> 00:40:28.903
…  Gab: is when you're falling asleep,
whereas hypnopompic hallucination, it

00:40:28.953 --> 00:40:36.193
occurs upon waking But more of like
a still in that- like from like that

00:40:36.193 --> 00:40:39.313
sleep state to that like wakeful state

00:40:40.273 --> 00:40:42.443
Jody: mean, the key word there
is hallucination too, Right.

00:40:42.583 --> 00:40:42.893
Gab: right?

00:40:43.393 --> 00:40:45.383
Jody: But it's no different than
people that use drugs, right?

00:40:46.173 --> 00:40:51.623
Psychedelic drugs to get into, you know,
a different state than basically change

00:40:51.623 --> 00:40:53.123
their whole perspective on life, right?

00:40:53.129 --> 00:40:53.569
Gab: Yeah.

00:40:54.569 --> 00:40:55.590
Jody: probably a little safer.

00:40:55.808 --> 00:40:56.318
Gab: Yeah.

00:40:56.448 --> 00:40:56.928
True.

00:40:57.038 --> 00:40:58.198
It's definitely safer

00:40:59.545 --> 00:40:59.991
Jody: Oh, you know what?

00:40:59.991 --> 00:41:00.703
Before we go-

00:41:01.889 --> 00:41:03.204
there's like something I wanna talk about.

00:41:04.204 --> 00:41:05.584
this stuff is boring everybody,

00:41:06.639 --> 00:41:07.959
You know, like, uh, I'm sorry.

00:41:08.169 --> 00:41:11.209
It's kind of just, it's, it's the way I
think we're going with this Like- Yeah.

00:41:11.759 --> 00:41:12.089
the,

00:41:13.089 --> 00:41:16.169
Gab: Traditional aspect is
no longer exciting to us

00:41:17.169 --> 00:41:20.329
Jody: I don't want to say that 'cause
I still, I mean, who doesn't like to

00:41:20.329 --> 00:41:21.579
go out and do an investigation, right?

00:41:21.619 --> 00:41:22.549
Everybody likes to do that.

00:41:22.549 --> 00:41:25.519
You're, you're in a old
place, whatever, you know,

00:41:25.574 --> 00:41:25.744
Gab: I know.

00:41:25.744 --> 00:41:26.684
I Love it,

00:41:26.684 --> 00:41:27.434
Jody: it's really cool.

00:41:27.434 --> 00:41:30.774
And sometimes, you know, I
mean, we're still out there.

00:41:30.774 --> 00:41:31.634
We still get EVPs.

00:41:31.691 --> 00:41:33.074
We're still doing weird shit, you know?

00:41:34.074 --> 00:41:35.604
I don't think any of that's going away

00:41:36.604 --> 00:41:37.644
You know, we're still gonna do that.

00:41:37.644 --> 00:41:41.584
We're gonna have episodes where we go and
we investigate a place And we, um,  review

00:41:41.584 --> 00:41:43.584
evidence  I don't think that's going away.

00:41:43.584 --> 00:41:47.114
I think it's just, we're just really
just changing our perspective on it,

00:41:47.664 --> 00:41:48.124
Gab: yeah.

00:41:49.124 --> 00:41:50.134
Jody: If that makes sense.

00:41:51.134 --> 00:41:51.614
Gab: Yeah, I get

00:41:52.446 --> 00:41:52.476
Jody: that.

00:41:52.476 --> 00:41:56.116
Plus it, it's been, it's leading us
to some pretty good experiments and,

00:41:57.116 --> 00:41:59.646
Gab: Something we can
measure and, like, recreate.

00:41:59.962 --> 00:42:01.088
Jody: Yes, exactly.

00:42:01.348 --> 00:42:01.648
Yeah.

00:42:02.426 --> 00:42:02.834
Gab: Yeah.

00:42:03.656 --> 00:42:07.024
It's interesting It's lonely
'cause it's only the two of us.

00:42:07.776 --> 00:42:11.886
And when you start like really getting
into the weeds of the theories and

00:42:11.886 --> 00:42:15.006
things that we found, I feel like
you really lose people 'cause they're

00:42:15.006 --> 00:42:17.772
just not, they're just not there

00:42:18.772 --> 00:42:20.532
Jody: Oh, I mean, you could
lose yourself a little bit, too.

00:42:21.040 --> 00:42:21.080
Gab: Yeah.

00:42:21.080 --> 00:42:21.604
You could.

00:42:22.189 --> 00:42:25.339
Jody: I remember you getting into the
whole, you know, how our brains work

00:42:25.339 --> 00:42:26.399
and our minds and all that and…

00:42:26.567 --> 00:42:27.057
Gab: yeah

00:42:27.249 --> 00:42:29.052
Jody: texting me at work the the one day.

00:42:29.052 --> 00:42:29.312
Gab: Yeah

00:42:29.432 --> 00:42:31.734
…  Jody: Saying, "Oh my God. Oh
my God, oh my God, oh my God."

00:42:32.033 --> 00:42:32.393
Gab: Yeah.

00:42:32.434 --> 00:42:32.833
Jody: It's us.

00:42:32.843 --> 00:42:33.593
It's our brains.

00:42:33.843 --> 00:42:36.222
Gab: It's like I think I just
ruined this all for myself.

00:42:38.042 --> 00:42:38.812
I think I'm done.

00:42:39.812 --> 00:42:42.292
Jody: But again, if you're interested
in the paranormal, I mean, you kinda

00:42:42.302 --> 00:42:43.802
have to live between both worlds, right?

00:42:43.960 --> 00:42:44.156
Gab: Yeah.

00:42:44.156 --> 00:42:44.596
You do

00:42:44.606 --> 00:42:45.156
Jody: Cause there are some things

00:42:45.156 --> 00:42:46.683
out there that are unexplainable.

00:42:46.851 --> 00:42:47.846
Gab: Yeah, definitely.

00:42:47.996 --> 00:42:48.486
There is.

00:42:48.562 --> 00:42:52.512
Jody: And you just need to wait for,
you know, the science to catch up.

00:42:52.781 --> 00:42:55.430
Gab: Yeah But I don't know.

00:42:55.620 --> 00:43:01.676
It's kind of like, I don't know, like
finding the magic again, you know, in the

00:43:01.676 --> 00:43:04.389
field Which has been really interesting

00:43:04.499 --> 00:43:04.983
Jody: Yeah.

00:43:05.983 --> 00:43:06.493
Gab: And fun.

00:43:07.007 --> 00:43:08.937
Jody: Well, if it wasn't
fun we wouldn't be doing it.

00:43:09.053 --> 00:43:09.743
Gab: Yeah, true.

00:43:10.243 --> 00:43:13.109
So that's all we have for you guys.

00:43:13.609 --> 00:43:16.999
If you have any questions or
anything you'd like to add, you

00:43:17.029 --> 00:43:22.769
could reach out to us at the
website, podcastoftheparanormal.com.

00:43:23.189 --> 00:43:26.069
Reach out through our contact
form, through our social media,

00:43:27.035 --> 00:43:28.279
whatever you're comfortable with.

00:43:28.699 --> 00:43:32.539
Jody: Yes, and please, remember
to, like, follow, share, give us

00:43:32.539 --> 00:43:33.979
a few stars if you like the show.

00:43:34.979 --> 00:43:36.289
any feedback is welcome really.

00:43:37.289 --> 00:43:39.290
and it helps us get out
there to new listeners.

00:43:39.752 --> 00:43:44.344
Gab: Yeah, and you can also on the
website, find all of the platforms

00:43:44.344 --> 00:43:48.044
where you can listen to the podcast,
you know, whatever your favorite app is.

00:43:48.188 --> 00:43:49.158
Jody: Stream it from anywhere.

00:43:49.344 --> 00:43:49.634
Gab: Yeah.

00:43:49.634 --> 00:43:51.124
Jody: Appreciate y'all
spending time with us.

00:43:51.346 --> 00:43:52.257
And we'll see you next time.

00:43:52.257 --> 00:43:53.237
Gab: Thanks everybody.

00:43:53.737 --> 00:43:54.247
Bye