WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:02.280 --> 00:00:05.940 Intro: You are now tuned in to podcast of the paranormal. 00:00:06.939 --> 00:00:07.979 Paul: Welcome everybody. 00:00:08.319 --> 00:00:10.059 We are trying out something new. 00:00:10.129 --> 00:00:13.610 I got put on the spot through this group chat, and now it is my 00:00:13.610 --> 00:00:15.169 turn to think of all these topics. 00:00:15.619 --> 00:00:19.980 We're gonna first talk about Kenneth Arnold, who had the infamous 00:00:20.010 --> 00:00:25.730 UFO chase, and was shot down, possibly by a UFO that he had seen. 00:00:25.980 --> 00:00:30.553 And then lastly, we're gonna delve into the fairy realm and maybe not come out, 00:00:31.053 --> 00:00:36.543 anyway, without further ado, joining me are the lovely people from the Podcast 00:00:36.553 --> 00:00:39.603 of the Paranormal, Gabrielle and Jody. 00:00:39.633 --> 00:00:45.643 And then for NVUS Alien, we only have one guest, uh, host, is Heather. 00:00:45.783 --> 00:00:48.733 So welcome all to the conversation 00:00:48.733 --> 00:00:49.733 Jody: Hey, how's it going, Paul? 00:00:49.733 --> 00:00:50.873 Heather: You didn't mention yourself. 00:00:50.883 --> 00:00:51.833 Where are you from? 00:00:51.833 --> 00:00:53.233 Paul: I am from Paul Dulski. 00:00:53.313 --> 00:00:54.063 Where are you from? 00:00:55.862 --> 00:00:59.552 No, in all seriousness, I don't even know where to begin with this anymore, 00:00:59.552 --> 00:01:00.702 so this is something interesting. 00:01:01.552 --> 00:01:04.692 For all I know, maybe this show is called the Interdimensional Beings. 00:01:04.692 --> 00:01:05.322 I don't know. 00:01:05.622 --> 00:01:09.082 Anyway, long story short, let's get into it. 00:01:09.523 --> 00:01:14.953 So on June 24th, 1947, which was about a couple week before Roswell even happened, 00:01:15.373 --> 00:01:21.756 we have a civilian pilot, Kenneth Arnold, who was reported seeing a nine 00:01:22.046 --> 00:01:28.319 shiny disc-like objects flying like a V formation near Mount Rainer, Washington. 00:01:28.799 --> 00:01:33.759 He estimated their speed at over 1,200 miles an hour, and his description 00:01:33.759 --> 00:01:39.869 of their skipping movement led to the media to coin the term flying saucer. 00:01:40.449 --> 00:01:45.319 So what I can say about this real quick, I, I think what would be best maybe 00:01:45.319 --> 00:01:49.019 to start off as categories and then w- you know, we can all put in our two 00:01:49.059 --> 00:01:53.119 cents, and then maybe go in there, and then we can just finish it up with that 00:01:53.149 --> 00:01:57.259 anyway, we'll talk about the incident for a minute, and then I'll just 00:01:57.259 --> 00:02:01.469 shout this out, and then we can all get together as one and dive in of 00:02:01.469 --> 00:02:06.099 what our crazy opinion would be for back then to maybe this modern take. 00:02:06.499 --> 00:02:11.179 Uh, so we'll start with, like, the incident, uh, especially with the flight. 00:02:11.199 --> 00:02:19.273 So while flying his CallAir A-2 plane, He was diverted to search for 00:02:19.283 --> 00:02:24.723 a missing Marine Corp transport, uh, transport plane, which was interesting. 00:02:24.733 --> 00:02:28.293 The sighting was at, like, 9,200 feet. 00:02:28.483 --> 00:02:34.923 He had spotted a chain of nine brightly gleaming disc-shaped objects, and it 00:02:34.923 --> 00:02:36.863 would weave in-between mountain peaks. 00:02:37.419 --> 00:02:42.989 Arnold had timed the object flying between Mount Rainier and Mount Adam at about 00:02:42.999 --> 00:02:48.149 50 miles in one minute and 42 seconds, calculating their speed at approximately 00:02:48.429 --> 00:02:51.391 1,200 to 1,700 miles an hour. 00:02:51.801 --> 00:02:55.601 So this was roughly three times faster than any manned, 00:02:55.801 --> 00:02:58.851 uh, aircraft back in 1947. 00:02:59.451 --> 00:03:00.931 So what are your guys' thoughts on this? 00:03:01.371 --> 00:03:05.541 'Cause when I kinda first heard about this, I just thought this is crazy 00:03:05.541 --> 00:03:10.301 that this might be the first time where I heard it where it's like, wait, 00:03:10.331 --> 00:03:13.981 something happened before Roswell, because Roswell seemed to be everywhere. 00:03:14.501 --> 00:03:16.391 Especially, uh, what's that book called? 00:03:16.401 --> 00:03:18.161 A Day After Roswell, something like that. 00:03:18.161 --> 00:03:19.501 You, you know, it's everywhere. 00:03:19.981 --> 00:03:24.091 But when you start hearing that there was something actually before Roswell, 00:03:24.111 --> 00:03:29.791 it's like, well, why does this seem to be more kept quiet, I think? 00:03:30.641 --> 00:03:34.751 And when you look into it more, I just think it's interesting because 00:03:35.301 --> 00:03:39.351 Mr. Arnold here, he's the one that kinda coined us that term UFOs, 00:03:39.351 --> 00:03:40.781 or flying saucers to begin with. 00:03:40.811 --> 00:03:44.491 So I don't know why that should be left under the radar, but then again, 00:03:44.491 --> 00:03:48.701 we're talking 1940s, so hush hush. 00:03:48.761 --> 00:03:50.631 Otherwise, there's gonna be consequences. 00:03:51.191 --> 00:03:54.221 So, I don't know who was on the spot last time. 00:03:54.241 --> 00:03:57.631 So whoever would like to start with their opinion please. 00:03:58.631 --> 00:03:59.031 Jody: I'll go. 00:03:59.641 --> 00:04:03.384 yeah so I think the most interesting thing about it is you have an 00:04:03.384 --> 00:04:06.184 actual pilot that's witnessing this. 00:04:07.104 --> 00:04:10.014 Okay, so it's like one of those situations where like, all right, I was up there. 00:04:10.024 --> 00:04:10.874 No one else was up there. 00:04:10.874 --> 00:04:11.864 I'm the only one that saw it. 00:04:12.514 --> 00:04:13.364 Single witness, right? 00:04:14.364 --> 00:04:17.864 But he's also a pilot, so he, he has those skills to kinda say, "All right. 00:04:18.034 --> 00:04:19.324 I'm going at this speed. 00:04:20.114 --> 00:04:24.864 Um, I could judge how fast these things were going." You know what I mean? 00:04:24.894 --> 00:04:29.674 And to make that up, you know, it just doesn't seem Doesn't seem like there's 00:04:29.674 --> 00:04:30.914 any reason for him to be doing that. 00:04:31.724 --> 00:04:32.124 You know? 00:04:32.374 --> 00:04:35.253 Now, back in the 1940s, who knows we were seeing up there, right? 00:04:35.723 --> 00:04:38.723 He could have been seeing, you know, jets. 00:04:39.049 --> 00:04:42.049 You're right around, you know, right around the time of World War II 00:04:42.049 --> 00:04:43.239 or the end of World War II, right? 00:04:43.849 --> 00:04:44.869 We have all these ne- 00:04:45.449 --> 00:04:45.619 Paul: Yeah. 00:04:45.619 --> 00:04:45.889 Yeah. 00:04:46.289 --> 00:04:46.489 Yeah. 00:04:46.489 --> 00:04:47.029 It was right after. 00:04:47.029 --> 00:04:48.429 It was right after. 00:04:48.469 --> 00:04:48.759 Yeah. 00:04:49.769 --> 00:04:52.839 Jody: So, I mean, who knows what our military was working on, right? 00:04:53.073 --> 00:04:53.343 Paul: Right, right 00:04:53.413 --> 00:04:56.853 Jody: And, you know, he could have seen maybe a formation of jets, 00:04:56.883 --> 00:04:58.993 fighter jets, early fighter jets. 00:04:58.993 --> 00:04:59.253 You know? 00:04:59.253 --> 00:05:02.283 Like I don't, I can't, I don't know what year the F-16 came out, right? 00:05:02.283 --> 00:05:03.203 I, I can't tell you that. 00:05:03.243 --> 00:05:05.203 That's not my, that's not my thing. 00:05:05.213 --> 00:05:06.573 That's, I don't know, I don't have that knowledge. 00:05:07.233 --> 00:05:09.983 But what if we were working on something that's like, you know, 00:05:09.983 --> 00:05:11.733 he's, he's seeing discs in the sky. 00:05:11.733 --> 00:05:13.933 What if he's seeing like an afterburner or something like that, and a 00:05:13.933 --> 00:05:15.213 formation of these things, right? 00:05:15.223 --> 00:05:16.853 Seven to nine of these things, I think it was. 00:05:17.273 --> 00:05:19.559 I can't remember what you said, but, what if he's seeing these 00:05:19.569 --> 00:05:22.689 formations and, and he's just seeing that light, that light pattern, and 00:05:22.689 --> 00:05:24.999 he's saying, " I'm seeing a disc. 00:05:25.089 --> 00:05:28.939 These are flying, glowing discs." You can't see the rest of the pattern 00:05:28.939 --> 00:05:30.699 of the, of, of, of the jet, right? 00:05:31.069 --> 00:05:31.419 Paul: Right. 00:05:31.559 --> 00:05:32.389 Jody: But that's what he's seeing. 00:05:32.389 --> 00:05:33.669 He's seeing the afterburners, right? 00:05:33.999 --> 00:05:34.806 And I m- might have missed it. 00:05:34.816 --> 00:05:37.566 Was it at, was it at night that he witnessed this? 00:05:37.596 --> 00:05:39.246 Or was it like during the day, or? 00:05:39.526 --> 00:05:40.876 Paul: I want to say it was during the day. 00:05:41.433 --> 00:05:45.479 Jody: I mean, so like, i- it could be mistaken, you know, like a case 00:05:45.479 --> 00:05:46.829 of mistaken identity, what he saw. 00:05:46.859 --> 00:05:49.679 Like he could have seen something that our military was working on, had no 00:05:49.679 --> 00:05:52.279 idea what it was, never saw anything like that before, and said, "All right. 00:05:52.279 --> 00:05:53.119 This is abnormal. 00:05:53.939 --> 00:05:54.749 This is what I think I'm seeing. 00:05:54.749 --> 00:05:56.603 I'm seeing flying discs, these balls of light," right? 00:05:56.979 --> 00:05:57.359 Paul: Mm-hmm. 00:05:57.689 --> 00:06:00.059 Jody: But I, I still think it's interesting that he was able to 00:06:00.059 --> 00:06:02.089 calculate the speed they were going at. 00:06:02.109 --> 00:06:05.079 I can't tell you how fast F-16s fly, you know what I mean? 00:06:05.569 --> 00:06:05.889 Right. 00:06:05.889 --> 00:06:07.259 Uh, for, you know, as an example. 00:06:07.259 --> 00:06:12.039 But I, 1,200, you know, that's, that's, that's pretty fast. 00:06:12.676 --> 00:06:12.716 You know? 00:06:12.716 --> 00:06:12.786 I- 00:06:12.786 --> 00:06:15.596 Paul: I just want to make a quick note here just to help- 00:06:15.666 --> 00:06:15.776 Jody: Mm-hmm 00:06:15.776 --> 00:06:16.466 … Paul: with this conversation. 00:06:16.706 --> 00:06:21.606 So his, his encounter only happened for two and a half minute, but- 00:06:21.616 --> 00:06:21.826 Jody: Mm-hmm 00:06:22.276 --> 00:06:26.426 Paul: Kenneth Arnold had over 4,000 hours of total flight time. 00:06:26.846 --> 00:06:32.116 So he k- he, he was obviously a pro at what he was seeing in the sky. 00:06:32.846 --> 00:06:33.576 Jody: Yeah, yeah. 00:06:34.239 --> 00:06:35.329 I don't know, Heather, what do you think? 00:06:35.793 --> 00:06:36.233 Heather: I don't know. 00:06:36.233 --> 00:06:40.343 So my brain goes in a weird place with this and, what I always 00:06:40.353 --> 00:06:43.703 think is what if he was seeing some kind of window to the future? 00:06:43.863 --> 00:06:50.683 So what if he was seeing something that was, um, now in this time period? 00:06:50.843 --> 00:06:56.503 Because a lot of like the formation that he's seeing and what he is talking 00:06:56.503 --> 00:07:03.303 about sounds a lot like the UFO reports that were just dropped from the FBI, 00:07:04.063 --> 00:07:05.573 the ones that were unclassified. 00:07:05.643 --> 00:07:08.513 They, a lot of them are in these weird formations just 00:07:08.513 --> 00:07:09.703 like you were talking about. 00:07:09.713 --> 00:07:14.203 And every time I read about this, this particular subject, it makes me 00:07:14.223 --> 00:07:18.933 think- Is this some kind of, like, window, like if you go farther up, 00:07:18.933 --> 00:07:22.863 is there some kind of window to, like, past, present, and future? 00:07:23.863 --> 00:07:24.053 Jody: Yeah. 00:07:25.013 --> 00:07:25.683 Mm-hmm. 00:07:25.683 --> 00:07:27.903 I mean, plus we were working on the, you know, the atomic bomb 00:07:27.903 --> 00:07:28.823 at that point, too, you know, so. 00:07:28.883 --> 00:07:29.473 Heather: Yeah. 00:07:29.583 --> 00:07:33.463 And the t- atomic bomb- Yeah … for whatever reason, I've been reading a lot 00:07:33.463 --> 00:07:36.713 about nuclear power and just that era. 00:07:37.323 --> 00:07:44.453 And there's something about the nuclear bomb that changed how 00:07:44.463 --> 00:07:47.093 we thought about the future. 00:07:47.093 --> 00:07:50.533 Or, or how we thought about, like, windows into the future. 00:07:50.533 --> 00:07:56.993 Or I don't know, it seems to have created some kind of fissure in the fabric of 00:07:57.513 --> 00:07:59.603 space and time or something like that. 00:07:59.673 --> 00:07:59.683 Jody: Hmm. 00:07:59.683 --> 00:08:00.393 Heather: I, I don't know. 00:08:00.673 --> 00:08:06.073 There's a lot about that, where a lot of UFO sightings, bigfoot sightings, 00:08:06.123 --> 00:08:12.933 cryptids, supernatural stuff, like, picked up right after the bomb. 00:08:13.273 --> 00:08:13.303 Jody: Right. 00:08:13.313 --> 00:08:14.363 Heather: So I don't know. 00:08:14.363 --> 00:08:19.393 And then the other thing is, I don't think Roswell was the first, crash. 00:08:19.593 --> 00:08:21.893 There's actually one from 1941 in Missouri. 00:08:22.503 --> 00:08:23.953 And it was a, the same thing. 00:08:23.953 --> 00:08:26.793 It was a silver disc, just like he was talking about. 00:08:27.253 --> 00:08:28.463 So I thought that was interesting. 00:08:28.783 --> 00:08:32.823 I think it's Cape Girardeau or something like that. 00:08:33.213 --> 00:08:37.223 But it's a really, important case, that they hid. 00:08:37.423 --> 00:08:42.493 So Roswell's the one that was, like, the most, uh, publicized, but 00:08:42.493 --> 00:08:44.053 it wasn't actually the first one. 00:08:44.393 --> 00:08:49.273 The one in Missouri was actually, There weren't any like little men. 00:08:49.283 --> 00:08:51.593 Like in Roswell there was little men. 00:08:51.943 --> 00:08:54.283 In this one it was just the actual crash site. 00:08:54.323 --> 00:08:58.133 But for whatever reason it, for ufologists it's actually more important. 00:08:58.133 --> 00:08:59.053 I don't know why. 00:09:00.053 --> 00:09:00.263 Jody: Mm-hmm. 00:09:00.453 --> 00:09:01.753 Heather: Cause I'm not a ufologist. 00:09:02.753 --> 00:09:05.783 Jody: It, it'd be interesting, all these people have been 00:09:05.833 --> 00:09:06.813 seeing these things, right? 00:09:06.873 --> 00:09:08.733 These, these, these flying discs. 00:09:09.213 --> 00:09:09.463 Heather: Mm-hmm. 00:09:09.473 --> 00:09:15.103 Jody: Um, and they're all separated by geography It'd be interesting to 00:09:15.103 --> 00:09:21.733 know if each group knew about the previous, you know, events before 00:09:21.733 --> 00:09:24.503 they described, uh, these objects. 00:09:24.523 --> 00:09:24.973 You know what I mean? 00:09:24.973 --> 00:09:29.073 'Cause to have, to have multiple groups in different times throughout the '40s 00:09:30.073 --> 00:09:34.343 all describing the same thing, like how does that, how does that happen, you know, 00:09:34.743 --> 00:09:36.163 if they don't have any history on that? 00:09:37.163 --> 00:09:37.533 You know, 00:09:37.533 --> 00:09:39.893 and I, I, I could be totally wrong, you know what I mean? 00:09:39.893 --> 00:09:44.453 Like I, you know, I don't know if, I don't know if they knew 00:09:44.536 --> 00:09:46.266 about any of the UFO history. 00:09:47.226 --> 00:09:48.146 Heather: Um, well I know the ca- 00:09:48.146 --> 00:09:48.766 Jody: You know? 00:09:48.766 --> 00:09:51.896 Heather: The 1941 ca- I, I think it's Cape Girardeau, and if I miss- 00:09:51.996 --> 00:09:53.906 Jody: Mm-hmm 00:09:53.906 --> 00:09:53.936 … Heather: just what, where. 00:09:53.936 --> 00:09:54.046 Jody: Yeah, that's- 00:09:54.196 --> 00:09:56.196 Heather: I've missed pr- That's my, my gig. 00:09:56.546 --> 00:10:00.926 But it was in Missouri, and it's still a, it's still an Air Force base today. 00:10:01.096 --> 00:10:02.986 But that one was, was totally classified. 00:10:02.986 --> 00:10:03.716 It was hidden. 00:10:04.266 --> 00:10:05.336 . So nobody would know about it. 00:10:05.336 --> 00:10:07.156 They kept that one under wraps, like- 00:10:07.586 --> 00:10:07.696 Jody: Yeah 00:10:08.046 --> 00:10:10.949 … Heather: um, So they tried to keep Roswell under wraps, but too many 00:10:10.949 --> 00:10:12.629 people saw it, so that was like- 00:10:12.629 --> 00:10:12.799 Jody: Right 00:10:12.899 --> 00:10:18.079 Heather: a, you know, s- trying to suppress Instagram, you know what I mean? 00:10:18.079 --> 00:10:18.759 Just not gonna happen. 00:10:19.049 --> 00:10:21.786 But- The 1941, 00:10:21.796 --> 00:10:24.756 because it was one of the first on American soil. 00:10:24.766 --> 00:10:29.096 I know there was one in Mexico that was prior to that, but the one here on 00:10:29.096 --> 00:10:32.816 United States, that was the first one, and so they kept that way under wraps. 00:10:32.856 --> 00:10:36.856 But I, but I always wonder, like, were they doing something with saucers? 00:10:36.856 --> 00:10:40.493 'Cause I read the book Area 51, where it talks about the history of 00:10:40.503 --> 00:10:42.303 like what they were testing there. 00:10:43.303 --> 00:10:48.103 But a lot of what they were testing were the triangles, not the saucer shape. 00:10:48.103 --> 00:10:48.353 Jody: Yeah. 00:10:48.363 --> 00:10:48.763 Heather: So I always wonder what that is 00:10:49.821 --> 00:10:50.131 Jody: Yeah. 00:10:50.965 --> 00:10:51.735 Paul: What do you think, Gab? 00:10:52.735 --> 00:10:54.955 Gabrielle: I kinda thought the same as Heather. 00:10:55.389 --> 00:10:59.049 My immediate thought was, that sounds like future technology that he's seeing. 00:10:59.049 --> 00:11:01.699 Like, he's out of time in some way. 00:11:02.369 --> 00:11:06.459 And then I did some Googling based on what we talked about. 00:11:06.805 --> 00:11:12.739 So, the first, like, what were we, what was the stealth plane? 00:11:12.739 --> 00:11:13.449 The fighter jet. 00:11:13.699 --> 00:11:13.739 Heather: Mm-hmm. 00:11:13.749 --> 00:11:17.269 Gabrielle: The first fighter jet came around in 1944. 00:11:17.996 --> 00:11:26.139 Now, in 1947 is when Kenneth Arnold had his experience, and in 1947 there 00:11:26.139 --> 00:11:31.379 was a rocket plane, but that rocket plane only went 700 miles an hour. 00:11:31.419 --> 00:11:31.721 Jody: Right. 00:11:32.308 --> 00:11:37.725 Gabrielle: So it's, like, half of what he claims that he was able to clock. 00:11:38.725 --> 00:11:39.125 Paul: Yeah. 00:11:40.125 --> 00:11:44.245 It's, I don't know, it's just, like, bizarre for that timeframe. 00:11:44.245 --> 00:11:50.455 Because, let's be honest, nowadays with the way everything has become in the 00:11:50.465 --> 00:11:57.045 modern age, we could easily try to say, "Oh, it's, it's a drone. It's this, 00:11:57.045 --> 00:12:00.445 it's that." You know, there's way too much now that you could just say is 00:12:00.445 --> 00:12:03.275 in the sky, therefore it must be this. 00:12:03.625 --> 00:12:06.045 Where back then there really wasn't much. 00:12:06.585 --> 00:12:06.875 Jody: Yeah. 00:12:07.825 --> 00:12:07.855 Heather: Mm-hmm. 00:12:07.855 --> 00:12:09.025 Where was he flying? 00:12:09.115 --> 00:12:09.215 I don't know. 00:12:09.215 --> 00:12:10.345 Do you know what area he was flying? 00:12:11.345 --> 00:12:14.135 Paul: Around Mount Rainier, Washington. 00:12:14.195 --> 00:12:14.605 Heather: That's right. 00:12:14.605 --> 00:12:17.305 Paul: Cause he was looking for a transport plane. 00:12:18.305 --> 00:12:19.855 Heather: So it's interesting, it's interesting too 'cause that area 00:12:19.855 --> 00:12:22.065 is known for UFO sightings now. 00:12:22.115 --> 00:12:22.405 Paul: Yes. 00:12:22.705 --> 00:12:23.505 Heather: In present day. 00:12:23.505 --> 00:12:25.145 It's hugely known for that. 00:12:25.155 --> 00:12:30.235 So, I just wonder if like that's always been there like that, like it's 00:12:30.235 --> 00:12:33.685 a soft spot, and he was like one of the first people to experience it. 00:12:34.685 --> 00:12:35.385 Paul: Maybe. 00:12:35.975 --> 00:12:42.155 But I'm trying to think of that other case where we had that other famous 00:12:42.195 --> 00:12:45.975 pilot, unless I'm thinking maybe of the Bermuda Triangle, but that 00:12:45.975 --> 00:12:47.565 doesn't sound right, but maybe it is. 00:12:48.095 --> 00:12:54.552 But we had that guy that was, flying and maybe, maybe it is the Bermuda, 00:12:54.552 --> 00:12:56.372 you guys can maybe correct me. 00:12:56.492 --> 00:13:00.522 But anyway, the point that I'm trying to say is he like went into some maybe 00:13:00.522 --> 00:13:07.472 wormhole, and he ended up going into this weird other dimension or planet, 00:13:07.812 --> 00:13:13.822 and it looked more, extraordinary than w- like what we, it, would be seeing. 00:13:14.032 --> 00:13:16.302 Like it looked more beautiful or something, and then he like 00:13:16.302 --> 00:13:18.202 came out of it or something. 00:13:18.242 --> 00:13:21.122 Like he was almost like seeing like a different place 00:13:21.142 --> 00:13:22.272 that he shouldn't be seeing 00:13:23.723 --> 00:13:26.593 Jody: I might sound completely, I might sound completely stupid 00:13:26.933 --> 00:13:31.543 bringing this up, but the Mount Rainier area, is that the setting of 00:13:31.543 --> 00:13:32.983 Close Encounters of the Third Kind? 00:13:33.983 --> 00:13:34.163 Paul: No. 00:13:34.163 --> 00:13:34.553 Jody: It's not? 00:13:34.613 --> 00:13:35.053 Okay. 00:13:35.163 --> 00:13:35.693 Heather: It's in Utah. 00:13:35.903 --> 00:13:36.803 Gabrielle: Isn't that Alaska? 00:13:37.053 --> 00:13:38.143 No, that's The Fourth Kind. 00:13:38.143 --> 00:13:38.553 Jody: Okay. 00:13:38.763 --> 00:13:39.133 Heather: It's in Utah. 00:13:39.663 --> 00:13:39.693 Jody: Okay. 00:13:39.823 --> 00:13:41.457 Heather: Devil's, Tower, I think it's called. 00:13:41.527 --> 00:13:41.727 That's what they call it. 00:13:41.727 --> 00:13:42.737 Jody: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:13:42.777 --> 00:13:43.217 That's right. 00:13:43.317 --> 00:13:43.807 You're right. 00:13:43.907 --> 00:13:44.187 Yeah. 00:13:44.467 --> 00:13:44.757 Heather: Yeah. 00:13:45.757 --> 00:13:48.887 Paul: Yeah, Mount Rainier is more around, uh, what, what 00:13:48.887 --> 00:13:49.827 was the other one I just said? 00:13:49.837 --> 00:13:51.077 Mount, Mount Adams. 00:13:51.957 --> 00:13:52.257 Jody: Mm-hmm. 00:13:52.377 --> 00:13:53.897 Paul: In Washington, so. 00:13:54.437 --> 00:13:58.057 But yes, uh, there's a lot of not only UFO, but there's a 00:13:58.057 --> 00:13:59.817 lot of weird missing people. 00:13:59.917 --> 00:14:02.747 Again, that area is just strange. 00:14:02.757 --> 00:14:02.777 Yeah. 00:14:03.797 --> 00:14:11.040 Speaking of the UFO topic thing, we also had that one person who, kind of vanished, 00:14:11.040 --> 00:14:13.240 never to be seen again kind of thing. 00:14:13.250 --> 00:14:19.540 Like he Kind of just left his phone and just went off into Mount Rainier 00:14:19.550 --> 00:14:22.950 or something to take a walk or a hike or whatever and was never seen again. 00:14:23.310 --> 00:14:28.390 But he was known to be part of like a, part of the government basically. 00:14:29.390 --> 00:14:29.650 Jody: Hmm. 00:14:30.540 --> 00:14:33.190 Paul: I can't think of his name right now, but, yeah. 00:14:33.630 --> 00:14:37.270 It's just interesting because like I just even looked to try to help 00:14:37.400 --> 00:14:41.450 with my argument here too of when I was trying to, see if this is the 00:14:41.450 --> 00:14:44.670 guy for the Bermuda Triangle thing. 00:14:44.730 --> 00:14:46.630 I think his name was like Bruce or something. 00:14:46.640 --> 00:14:51.980 But anyway, this other one caught my attention too where like, uh, it was 00:14:51.980 --> 00:14:59.540 another pilot from 1978 of October 23rd where he was an Australian pilot 00:14:59.560 --> 00:15:04.730 who vanished in 1978 after he had reported a unidentified object that 00:15:04.730 --> 00:15:09.400 he described as floating and not an aircraft before his engine failed. 00:15:10.250 --> 00:15:13.067 So that was, that sounds odd. 00:15:13.137 --> 00:15:18.807 And that happened over the, the Bass Strait of, Australia. 00:15:19.097 --> 00:15:24.607 And his final transmission was a call to Melbourne Air Traffic Control where 00:15:24.607 --> 00:15:28.887 he claimed that a strange aircraft with green light and a metallic exterior 00:15:28.887 --> 00:15:33.557 was orbiting him, and his last words were, "It's not an aircraft," followed 00:15:33.567 --> 00:15:35.867 by strange metallic scraping noises. 00:15:36.257 --> 00:15:39.177 Heather: But that sounds like a lot like… So I was watching, I was going 00:15:39.217 --> 00:15:41.977 through the videos of, on the UFO site. 00:15:42.037 --> 00:15:44.117 Like the, they did two dumps. 00:15:44.197 --> 00:15:46.957 The first one was whatever, same stuff we've seen before. 00:15:47.297 --> 00:15:51.077 The second one was interesting though because they had videos, and a lot of 00:15:51.117 --> 00:15:56.517 what you're talking about is what we're seeing on these declassified things. 00:15:56.637 --> 00:16:01.337 There's hovering, they're hovering, they're V formations. 00:16:01.457 --> 00:16:04.547 Some of them are going underwater, which I think is really interesting. 00:16:04.557 --> 00:16:08.217 like they skim the surface of the water then go underneath, 00:16:08.257 --> 00:16:09.497 and they just kinda disappear. 00:16:10.107 --> 00:16:13.220 But it's weird that like you're talking with these things from like the '40s and 00:16:13.300 --> 00:16:20.650 '70s but- like in the last 10 years we're still seeing that same exact formation. 00:16:20.660 --> 00:16:23.583 And pilots now are having that same exact kind of experience. 00:16:23.603 --> 00:16:27.443 So it's n- it hasn't changed much at all, which makes me think are 00:16:27.503 --> 00:16:29.963 they, are they seeing the future? 00:16:30.083 --> 00:16:32.533 Or, have we always had this technology around? 00:16:33.453 --> 00:16:34.203 You know, which is it- 00:16:34.203 --> 00:16:34.383 Jody: Yeah. 00:16:35.320 --> 00:16:39.050 Paul: So, I mean, a lot of mysterious things we could 00:16:39.710 --> 00:16:41.770 obviously go into with this topic. 00:16:41.770 --> 00:16:49.530 But, um, just r- in reality though I just wanna say I think Kenneth was, uh, just, 00:16:49.800 --> 00:16:53.630 it's just interesting because it's, he was the first to really give us that term 00:16:53.630 --> 00:16:57.110 defined saucer to give us the UFO thing. 00:16:57.110 --> 00:17:02.130 I just think that it's, I just feel it's just not mentioned enough, so. 00:17:02.827 --> 00:17:06.197 Anyway, is there anything else that you guys would like to talk 00:17:06.207 --> 00:17:11.677 about regarding, Kenneth or even in the modern era of, UFOs, I guess? 00:17:12.677 --> 00:17:15.837 Gabrielle: I found the information for that incident you were talking about. 00:17:16.837 --> 00:17:18.027 His name is Bruce. 00:17:18.487 --> 00:17:22.653 And it's G-E-R-N-O-N, maybe Gernon. 00:17:23.743 --> 00:17:25.513 It was in the Bermuda Triangle. 00:17:25.773 --> 00:17:27.640 It was about 1970. 00:17:28.193 --> 00:17:30.253 He was flying near The Bahamas. 00:17:30.293 --> 00:17:33.103 He encountered a glowing doughnut shaped cloud. 00:17:33.813 --> 00:17:37.503 And then that turned into a massive horizontal tunnel. 00:17:38.453 --> 00:17:42.553 When he was inside it, he reported a glowing electronic fog. 00:17:42.883 --> 00:17:44.653 He said it drained his instruments. 00:17:45.653 --> 00:17:48.723 And then when he came out of the tunnel about four minutes later, 00:17:49.433 --> 00:17:54.363 his equipment was spinning, and he found that he had crossed 100 miles. 00:17:54.583 --> 00:17:59.843 He was off course, and it, he did this in minutes, but it should have taken him over 00:17:59.843 --> 00:18:02.693 an hour to cross that amount of mileage. 00:18:02.693 --> 00:18:04.263 Jody: I have definitely heard that story before. 00:18:04.323 --> 00:18:04.813 Gabrielle: Yeah. 00:18:04.883 --> 00:18:05.313 Heather: Yeah. 00:18:05.813 --> 00:18:06.083 Paul: Yeah. 00:18:06.103 --> 00:18:07.203 We've all heard that one. 00:18:07.213 --> 00:18:08.773 That's not the one I'm thinking of then. 00:18:08.823 --> 00:18:13.363 So it, it's a different pilot then, but that one's still good nonetheless. 00:18:13.363 --> 00:18:16.523 I just can't think of the one that I'm thinking of then where he went into this 00:18:16.573 --> 00:18:21.373 wormhole and came out to like almost like a different planet or something. 00:18:21.373 --> 00:18:23.903 'Cause he was describing what he was seeing, because it 00:18:23.923 --> 00:18:26.453 wasn't where he should be. 00:18:26.787 --> 00:18:30.467 Heather: It's in the same timeframe because I remember the, the one 00:18:30.467 --> 00:18:33.567 that Gabrielle just talked about, I remember seeing that on TV. 00:18:33.807 --> 00:18:35.897 It was like a big case, but there was one- 00:18:35.967 --> 00:18:36.297 Jody: Mm-hmm 00:18:36.297 --> 00:18:38.337 … Heather: around the same time that people talked about. 00:18:38.357 --> 00:18:42.237 And yeah, see, he, he saw different things that hadn't 00:18:42.297 --> 00:18:46.667 been made in this, this timeline. 00:18:46.787 --> 00:18:49.637 And so they're like, "Where are you?" Because he's talking about 00:18:49.637 --> 00:18:50.887 buildings that don't exist. 00:18:51.637 --> 00:18:51.997 Paul: Yeah. 00:18:52.027 --> 00:18:53.497 Maybe that's the one I'm thinking of then. 00:18:53.497 --> 00:18:53.617 Heather: Yeah. 00:18:53.617 --> 00:18:54.017 Yeah. 00:18:54.117 --> 00:18:56.047 And that's als- it was around the same time period. 00:18:56.267 --> 00:18:57.817 And that was also in the Bermuda Triangle. 00:18:58.367 --> 00:19:02.487 'Cause we don't talk about the Bermuda Triangle anymore, but it used to be- 00:19:02.557 --> 00:19:02.737 Jody: Right. 00:19:02.817 --> 00:19:03.607 … Heather: big business. 00:19:03.787 --> 00:19:03.867 Jody: Yeah. 00:19:03.867 --> 00:19:05.717 All the way back 00:19:05.997 --> 00:19:06.867 Paul: Yeah, exactly 00:19:06.867 --> 00:19:07.717 … Jody: to the '70s. 00:19:07.817 --> 00:19:08.167 Heather: Yeah. 00:19:08.307 --> 00:19:09.237 It was a big thing. 00:19:09.327 --> 00:19:09.347 Paul: Mm-hmm. 00:19:09.347 --> 00:19:11.167 Heather: I remember it was huge. 00:19:11.787 --> 00:19:14.797 All the stories about people missing. 00:19:15.797 --> 00:19:17.247 Jody: Yeah, so that's a weird thing, right? 00:19:17.277 --> 00:19:21.347 Because like all the flying saucer stuff was going on right around the 00:19:21.357 --> 00:19:23.177 time of the end of World War II, right? 00:19:23.957 --> 00:19:24.257 Paul: Yeah. 00:19:24.427 --> 00:19:26.477 Jody: And development of the atomic bomb and all that. 00:19:26.497 --> 00:19:30.467 And then, and then it kinda like jumps ahead to like, like the late '60s and 00:19:30.467 --> 00:19:36.277 '70s where there's like another, I don't wanna call it a flap, but like it, this 00:19:36.277 --> 00:19:39.197 stuff is, it's happening again, right? 00:19:39.207 --> 00:19:43.357 So like what, what's going on in the s- the late '60s and 00:19:43.357 --> 00:19:43.817 ' Paul: 70s? 00:19:43.827 --> 00:19:47.547 Jody: Um- Vietnam War V- well, there's Vietnam, there's the Cold War, right? 00:19:47.957 --> 00:19:48.207 Paul: Yep. 00:19:49.207 --> 00:19:53.447 Jody: So I'll kind of follow war, is what I'm getting at. 00:19:53.747 --> 00:19:58.337 Heather: Well, we, there might have been other… Like, when did 00:19:58.337 --> 00:20:01.467 we start changing our missiles? 00:20:02.467 --> 00:20:03.887 Was that in the late '70s? 00:20:04.167 --> 00:20:05.267 Is that when the… 00:20:05.467 --> 00:20:08.187 'Cause I know we were doing silos and stuff there for a while, 'cause there's 00:20:08.187 --> 00:20:10.407 a huge amount of silos from the Cold War. 00:20:10.997 --> 00:20:11.497 Um- 00:20:11.497 --> 00:20:11.627 Jody: Yeah 00:20:12.177 --> 00:20:13.927 … Heather: but that was n- not until what? 00:20:13.937 --> 00:20:14.567 When was that? 00:20:15.067 --> 00:20:15.827 was the Cold War? 00:20:16.667 --> 00:20:18.747 Jody: Cold War would be in the, it was the '60s, right? 00:20:18.747 --> 00:20:19.787 Heather: Right, I think so. 00:20:19.787 --> 00:20:19.877 Jody: I think so. 00:20:19.877 --> 00:20:20.167 Yeah. 00:20:20.337 --> 00:20:21.297 Heather: So what happened- It was the si- 00:20:21.297 --> 00:20:25.767 in the late '70s, early '80s that we're having a influx? 00:20:25.767 --> 00:20:27.997 Like, is there like new missiles? 00:20:27.997 --> 00:20:28.117 Jody: Technology. 00:20:28.117 --> 00:20:28.957 Heather: Technology. 00:20:28.977 --> 00:20:32.887 Is that when we're moving into computers? 00:20:32.897 --> 00:20:34.537 Jody: Yeah, that's, that's it. 00:20:34.727 --> 00:20:34.987 Yeah. 00:20:35.317 --> 00:20:35.557 Heather: Yeah. 00:20:35.587 --> 00:20:38.247 Jody: So these things are all happening at like, you know, uh, and 00:20:38.247 --> 00:20:41.057 I hate using this word 'cause I use it a lot anymore, paradigm shifts. 00:20:41.237 --> 00:20:41.577 Heather: Yep. 00:20:41.827 --> 00:20:42.067 Yep. 00:20:42.127 --> 00:20:42.397 Paul: Yep. 00:20:43.397 --> 00:20:46.997 Heather: When the world has changed and then now, like, okay, and then we 00:20:46.997 --> 00:20:51.907 don't talk about it a lot in the '90s, and then we're talking about it again. 00:20:51.907 --> 00:20:56.577 So what's happening now that it is shifting again? 00:20:56.757 --> 00:20:57.037 Jody: Yeah. 00:20:57.887 --> 00:21:00.147 Me and I- Well, it did, it did get big in the '90s again, but it was 00:21:00.147 --> 00:21:02.837 more like a pop culture sort of thing. 00:21:02.847 --> 00:21:05.067 'Cause you had like the X-Files that came out. 00:21:05.077 --> 00:21:05.097 Heather: Yeah. 00:21:05.117 --> 00:21:09.187 Jody: And so it was… It presented itself differently, which is interesting. 00:21:09.997 --> 00:21:11.544 Heather: Well, it was more like- 00:21:11.544 --> 00:21:11.987 Jody: It was more- 00:21:11.987 --> 00:21:14.007 … Heather: like conspiracy theory, tinfoil hattie. 00:21:14.027 --> 00:21:14.677 Like, if, if you- 00:21:14.677 --> 00:21:15.017 Jody: Yeah 00:21:15.107 --> 00:21:17.167 … Heather: if you believe in this stuff, you're crazy. 00:21:17.487 --> 00:21:17.977 Jody: Yeah. 00:21:17.977 --> 00:21:18.075 Yeah. 00:21:18.075 --> 00:21:22.067 Heather: But it was more like a, it was more like a recap of what has happened. 00:21:22.297 --> 00:21:22.317 Jody: Yeah. 00:21:22.397 --> 00:21:23.847 Heather: Not what is happening. 00:21:24.527 --> 00:21:24.627 Jody: Right. 00:21:25.077 --> 00:21:25.567 Heather: It was, it was- 00:21:25.567 --> 00:21:25.777 Jody: Yeah 00:21:25.947 --> 00:21:27.237 … Heather: like a, a summary. 00:21:28.237 --> 00:21:28.677 Jody: Yeah. 00:21:29.677 --> 00:21:32.347 Heather: And then- … 2000s it got popular again. 00:21:32.387 --> 00:21:33.767 Like 2010. 00:21:34.407 --> 00:21:38.337 Paul: Well, I think that's also because the people that did witness 00:21:38.367 --> 00:21:45.037 the Roswell incident, they were on their deathbed- Basically given 00:21:45.047 --> 00:21:47.707 their deathbed confession because- 00:21:47.767 --> 00:21:48.067 Jody: Yeah 00:21:48.227 --> 00:21:50.047 … Paul: not like they need to hold onto it anymore. 00:21:50.067 --> 00:21:52.987 Not like the government can come and get them because, I mean, even though 00:21:52.987 --> 00:21:56.757 they signed the form to say never to talk about this again otherwise there 00:21:56.757 --> 00:22:00.097 will be consequences, it's like, well, they're already dying anyway, so. 00:22:00.217 --> 00:22:00.877 Heather: They don't care anymore. 00:22:01.347 --> 00:22:01.767 Paul: No. 00:22:02.517 --> 00:22:08.607 So I think that helped definitely spark the conversation into the light more, 00:22:08.637 --> 00:22:11.057 or the beginning before it really- 00:22:11.057 --> 00:22:11.067 Jody: Mm-hmm 00:22:11.067 --> 00:22:18.557 Paul: started to take ahead, maybe more so in the late, 2010s maybe, like maybe- 00:22:18.557 --> 00:22:24.927 Mm-hmm … 2016, '17, or whenever it was when we really started to get like the, 00:22:25.927 --> 00:22:28.017 the TicTac video, and everything else. 00:22:28.277 --> 00:22:28.557 Jody: Mm-hmm. 00:22:28.677 --> 00:22:30.207 Paul: So that really helped, I think. 00:22:30.437 --> 00:22:33.927 And then that's when it kinda where we are now. 00:22:34.927 --> 00:22:37.467 Heather: I think it's weird though because, like I was 00:22:37.467 --> 00:22:38.597 super into the X-Files. 00:22:38.597 --> 00:22:41.347 Like it's, it's one of my favorite, top three favorite shows of all time, right? 00:22:41.560 --> 00:22:45.030 And so every five years I re-watch the whole series. 00:22:45.090 --> 00:22:48.700 I'm in the end of season three right now, and I just watch 00:22:48.700 --> 00:22:50.560 it sometimes just for fun. 00:22:50.920 --> 00:22:57.097 But you go through those, those shows, and you go through the episodes. 00:22:57.137 --> 00:23:02.477 And so much of what is on that is now canon, and before it was like, "Oh, 00:23:02.477 --> 00:23:04.017 if you believe this you're crazy." 00:23:04.257 --> 00:23:08.777 And now you're like, "Oh, that actually happened. Oh." Um- Yeah … and 00:23:08.777 --> 00:23:12.797 I remember Chris Carter did some interviews and he said that he doesn't 00:23:12.797 --> 00:23:16.817 know how many times he got raided by the FBI during the, the first run- 00:23:16.817 --> 00:23:17.007 Jody: Really? 00:23:17.227 --> 00:23:17.387 … Heather: of that. 00:23:17.867 --> 00:23:20.947 Because they're like, "How did you find out about that? What do you know?" Oh. 00:23:21.077 --> 00:23:22.747 And he's like, "I just kinda made it up." 00:23:23.487 --> 00:23:26.610 but yeah, they were raided a lot, because they wanted to 00:23:26.610 --> 00:23:28.610 know he was telling 'em secrets. 00:23:29.250 --> 00:23:35.380 but then the whole origin of like the, the alien part of it, and the black goo and 00:23:35.380 --> 00:23:39.570 all that stuff, I thought it was so- Yeah … crazy, and the Russian connections. 00:23:40.030 --> 00:23:43.370 But now that all seems really plausible. 00:23:43.923 --> 00:23:44.203 Yeah. 00:23:44.243 --> 00:23:45.023 Mm. It's kinda weird. 00:23:45.563 --> 00:23:47.533 Jody: Well all I know some black goo better not show up. 00:23:48.363 --> 00:23:50.714 I've had enough over the past few years, gonna be honest with ya. 00:23:51.283 --> 00:23:53.883 Heather: But it just, it's, it's interesting 'cause like I said, it 00:23:53.883 --> 00:23:55.533 seemed so far-fetched when it came out. 00:23:55.543 --> 00:23:56.237 And now it just- 00:23:56.237 --> 00:23:56.390 Jody: Yeah 00:23:56.390 --> 00:23:58.103 … Heather: seems like it's the norm. 00:23:58.723 --> 00:24:03.420 And some of the stuff about technology and about, like, there's a few about like 00:24:03.420 --> 00:24:06.490 microwaves that, that help people to kill. 00:24:07.240 --> 00:24:09.070 Um- Yeah … and I'm like, yeah, that's actually true. 00:24:09.110 --> 00:24:10.140 That's so weird. 00:24:10.140 --> 00:24:11.490 Paul: You mean it's not the speaking spell? 00:24:11.610 --> 00:24:12.720 Sorry, I had to. 00:24:13.580 --> 00:24:14.430 Heather: The speaking spell. 00:24:14.430 --> 00:24:14.940 That's funny. 00:24:15.757 --> 00:24:16.367 But yeah. 00:24:16.457 --> 00:24:16.757 Um- 00:24:17.437 --> 00:24:18.487 Paul: Speak of the devil. 00:24:18.487 --> 00:24:23.237 Heather: But the other thing too is I think part of the reason why, like, you're 00:24:23.237 --> 00:24:28.173 talking about, like, why doesn't people talk, about him very much and, and even 00:24:28.173 --> 00:24:35.263 though he's kind of like the forefather of, you know, what we call, uh, UFOs now. 00:24:35.673 --> 00:24:40.853 I think it's because probably with him, he talked about it and then it was like done. 00:24:40.923 --> 00:24:42.923 Like, he didn't think too much of it. 00:24:42.933 --> 00:24:42.953 Paul: Yeah. 00:24:43.603 --> 00:24:47.923 Heather: Afterwards, and people, especially pilots, they don't… 00:24:48.923 --> 00:24:50.593 It's part of their lexicon. 00:24:50.603 --> 00:24:52.203 Like, they don't think of it as weird. 00:24:52.463 --> 00:24:53.693 We think of it as weird. 00:24:53.703 --> 00:24:56.473 They don't, because they see it all the time. 00:24:56.990 --> 00:25:01.090 So I lived near Point Mugu most of my life. 00:25:01.570 --> 00:25:05.030 Point Mugu is in Ventura County, and it's this… well, they have 00:25:05.030 --> 00:25:08.690 missiles there and stuff, so they have underwater stuff there. 00:25:09.230 --> 00:25:13.420 So if we ever have a war, that's where you're gonna see all of the 00:25:13.420 --> 00:25:14.700 missiles come out of the ocean. 00:25:15.260 --> 00:25:18.250 And they do a lot of crazy stuff there that I didn't know about. 00:25:19.240 --> 00:25:20.700 Because we just don't talk about it. 00:25:20.700 --> 00:25:21.220 People just don't talk. 00:25:21.280 --> 00:25:23.960 It's so normal, like, to have that stuff around. 00:25:24.530 --> 00:25:28.450 It's so, it's so normal to see missiles driving by on their freeways. 00:25:28.450 --> 00:25:33.360 It's just… But one thing that I do remember that now I'm like, "Huh, I wonder 00:25:33.360 --> 00:25:38.030 what that was," 'cause I don't see it anymore, is we would be up at like 2:00 or 00:25:38.030 --> 00:25:41.320 3:00 in the morning drinking up on a hill. 00:25:41.820 --> 00:25:45.210 And you would see these weird formations of lights over the ocean. 00:25:46.210 --> 00:25:47.780 And we were like, "Oh, I wonder what that is." Yeah. 00:25:47.780 --> 00:25:50.030 And then like, out of sight, out of mind. 00:25:50.030 --> 00:25:50.900 You know what I mean? 00:25:51.500 --> 00:25:54.020 And then going back and thinking about it, I'm like, wonder if, 00:25:54.120 --> 00:25:58.460 like, wonder if we're seeing something we're not supposed to see. 00:25:58.460 --> 00:26:02.650 Or like, I, I wonder how much of that stuff is actually something, 00:26:02.960 --> 00:26:06.280 but we don't think of it as something because it's so normal. 00:26:07.280 --> 00:26:13.404 Um, and Right … I think that's why a lot of these, these airplane pilot people 00:26:13.404 --> 00:26:17.494 just kinda get overlooked, is because they don't make a big deal out of it. 00:26:17.504 --> 00:26:17.524 Yeah. 00:26:18.524 --> 00:26:19.794 It's so normal 00:26:20.794 --> 00:26:21.734 Jody: And, and it, it… 00:26:21.774 --> 00:26:23.134 How, how old were you at that time? 00:26:23.194 --> 00:26:24.504 I shouldn't say how old were you. 00:26:24.504 --> 00:26:26.634 Like, what, you were, like, a teenager at the time? 00:26:26.634 --> 00:26:26.964 Is that- 00:26:27.504 --> 00:26:28.264 Heather: A, teenager 00:26:28.274 --> 00:26:28.549 … Jody: late teens, something like that 00:26:28.549 --> 00:26:29.074 … Heather: in my 20s. 00:26:29.104 --> 00:26:30.174 Yeah, early 20s. 00:26:30.174 --> 00:26:30.384 Jody: Yeah. 00:26:30.384 --> 00:26:31.434 Heather: You know, when I could stay up till 3:00 in the 00:26:31.434 --> 00:26:32.534 morning, so it was a while ago. 00:26:32.534 --> 00:26:32.844 But- 00:26:32.894 --> 00:26:33.234 Jody: Yeah. 00:26:33.324 --> 00:26:33.864 Heather: Yeah. 00:26:33.924 --> 00:26:36.804 It just, it just normal, like, a lot of… 00:26:36.854 --> 00:26:41.284 Well, Ventura is very hilly, so you have to go up hills to go visit your friends. 00:26:41.284 --> 00:26:41.484 Jody: Yeah. 00:26:42.154 --> 00:26:44.274 Heather: When you just drive up there and you're sitting outside 00:26:44.284 --> 00:26:47.424 drinking, kinda 3:00 in the morning, like, "What the hell am I doing up 00:26:47.424 --> 00:26:50.664 here?" And you see the lights, and everyone's like, "Oh, yeah, the lights. 00:26:50.694 --> 00:26:52.744 Okay, anyway." Like, 'cause it's just so- 00:26:52.754 --> 00:26:53.094 Jody: Right. 00:26:53.144 --> 00:26:56.784 'Cause, like, I think at that time in your life, like, you see weird shit in 00:26:56.784 --> 00:26:58.244 your 20s, like, your teens and your 20s. 00:26:58.244 --> 00:26:58.684 Heather: Mm-hmm. 00:26:59.184 --> 00:27:00.384 Jody: And you don't think anything of it. 00:27:00.384 --> 00:27:02.294 You just think, "Oh, well that was weird." And then you just go back 00:27:02.294 --> 00:27:03.164 to doing what you're doing because- 00:27:03.224 --> 00:27:03.694 Heather: Right 00:27:03.874 --> 00:27:06.724 … Jody: you're not interested in it at that point, at that point in your life. 00:27:06.734 --> 00:27:08.904 You're interested in what's going on with your friends and, you 00:27:08.904 --> 00:27:11.074 know, where can I get another cold beer or whatever, you know? 00:27:11.114 --> 00:27:11.574 Heather: Yeah. 00:27:12.097 --> 00:27:12.627 Boones Farm. 00:27:12.627 --> 00:27:13.257 Jody: It's just crazy. 00:27:13.387 --> 00:27:13.447 Heather: You know? 00:27:13.677 --> 00:27:16.467 Jody: Cause I've, I have experiences like that when I was younger, and 00:27:16.467 --> 00:27:20.157 I'm like, "Oh, there was that one time when I saw that, that green 00:27:20.157 --> 00:27:21.347 light in the sky or whatever," right? 00:27:21.347 --> 00:27:23.677 It's, it's going through my head right now, and I'm like, "I didn't 00:27:23.677 --> 00:27:26.857 think anything of it then, but that probably shouldn't have happened. 00:27:26.897 --> 00:27:28.097 It was weird." You know what I mean? 00:27:28.417 --> 00:27:28.767 Paul: Yeah. 00:27:29.007 --> 00:27:29.217 Heather: Yeah. 00:27:29.217 --> 00:27:34.657 And it's just part of your everyday life, so you don't, you don't think about it. 00:27:34.867 --> 00:27:35.347 Um- 00:27:35.357 --> 00:27:35.377 Paul: Yeah 00:27:35.427 --> 00:27:38.787 … Heather: or you don't, you don't put an aspect to it. 00:27:38.787 --> 00:27:38.987 Paul: Take in the moment. 00:27:38.997 --> 00:27:39.017 Heather: Yeah. 00:27:39.297 --> 00:27:39.707 Yeah. 00:27:39.707 --> 00:27:41.007 It's just, it is what it is. 00:27:41.007 --> 00:27:44.727 I mean, I've talked to my friends who are still from there. 00:27:45.007 --> 00:27:47.667 I'm like, "You remember when we saw that thing?" And they're like, "Yeah. 00:27:47.667 --> 00:27:49.247 Is that a big deal?" I'm like, "Kinda. 00:27:49.647 --> 00:27:50.527 It is now." 00:27:51.727 --> 00:27:51.747 Jody: Yeah. 00:27:51.757 --> 00:27:54.627 Heather: Now that I'm thinking about it, and now that, now that I've read 00:27:54.627 --> 00:27:57.677 a lot about this, it's kinda odd. 00:27:57.687 --> 00:27:59.017 And they're like, "Oh, that's normal." 00:27:59.847 --> 00:27:59.947 Jody: Yeah. 00:27:59.947 --> 00:28:03.117 I mean, what, you're saying is, like, I have to try to, 00:28:03.187 --> 00:28:04.567 like, go back and try to think. 00:28:04.567 --> 00:28:07.107 I'm like, "Was this stuff happening more than I thought it was?" 00:28:07.317 --> 00:28:07.657 Heather: Yeah. 00:28:07.707 --> 00:28:10.077 Jody: And I just wasn't paying attention to it because I was, like, 00:28:10.077 --> 00:28:11.807 a stupid teenager or whatever, and- 00:28:12.377 --> 00:28:12.867 Paul: Oh, we were all stupid teenagers 00:28:12.867 --> 00:28:13.997 Jody: you know, more interested in whatever. 00:28:14.567 --> 00:28:14.637 Heather: it's just- 00:28:15.537 --> 00:28:16.017 Jody: It's crazy 00:28:16.037 --> 00:28:18.157 … Heather: It's just, like, you just accept it. 00:28:18.167 --> 00:28:19.217 And I think that's part of it, too. 00:28:19.217 --> 00:28:21.407 As we get older, we don't accept things as much. 00:28:21.657 --> 00:28:22.127 Jody: Right. 00:28:22.137 --> 00:28:26.537 Heather: So, like, you know, in my 20s, if I'm running around with a Zima, right? 00:28:26.897 --> 00:28:27.677 I am old. 00:28:27.897 --> 00:28:30.607 But yeah, so you're running around with a Zima and, you know, you're putting 00:28:30.607 --> 00:28:34.464 your watermelon, candy in it to make it taste better, the Jolly Rancher. 00:28:34.464 --> 00:28:35.454 Jody: Oh, my god. 00:28:35.564 --> 00:28:37.124 Heather: You know what I'm talking about, right? 00:28:37.984 --> 00:28:38.624 Jody: I do. 00:28:39.084 --> 00:28:39.284 Yeah. 00:28:39.284 --> 00:28:41.354 Heather: You're running around the forest, and you run up against 00:28:41.354 --> 00:28:42.584 something that looks like Bigfoot. 00:28:42.594 --> 00:28:44.254 You're not thinking about Bigfoot. 00:28:44.264 --> 00:28:45.334 You don't even care. 00:28:45.344 --> 00:28:46.024 You're just like- 00:28:47.024 --> 00:28:49.314 Jody: Oh, you're like, "Does anybody have a Jolly Rancher? I need to, 00:28:49.434 --> 00:28:50.504 I need to flavor this thing." 00:28:50.504 --> 00:28:52.034 You know? 00:28:52.244 --> 00:28:52.274 Heather: Right. 00:28:52.344 --> 00:28:53.364 Gabrielle: Maybe he has a, a Jolly Rancher. 00:28:53.414 --> 00:28:55.714 Heather: You're thinking, "Don't throw up, and get home before my 00:28:55.714 --> 00:28:58.654 mom knows that I didn't spend the night at so-and-so's house, and that 00:28:58.654 --> 00:29:00.684 I'm-… running around in the forest. 00:29:00.684 --> 00:29:01.764 That's what you're thinking. 00:29:02.364 --> 00:29:03.683 You're not thinking, "Oh, I can find bigfoot." Yeah, 00:29:03.683 --> 00:29:04.394 Paul: or I'm gonna be getting 10 across 00:29:04.444 --> 00:29:05.034 the ass. 00:29:05.114 --> 00:29:05.474 Yeah. 00:29:05.744 --> 00:29:07.864 Heather: And if I didn't, if you didn't encounter bigfoot, 00:29:07.914 --> 00:29:08.984 you would ahnd him a Zima. 00:29:08.984 --> 00:29:11.344 Like, you'd be like, "Yeah, you wanna…" Like, you wouldn't even. 00:29:12.174 --> 00:29:12.454 Paul: Nope. 00:29:13.084 --> 00:29:13.524 Heather: Yeah. 00:29:14.054 --> 00:29:14.294 Jody: Yep. 00:29:14.304 --> 00:29:14.344 Heather: You know? 00:29:14.354 --> 00:29:15.384 Jody: He's one of the pals now, yeah. 00:29:15.384 --> 00:29:15.634 Yeah. 00:29:17.284 --> 00:29:17.944 That's funny. 00:29:18.284 --> 00:29:19.014 Paul: Yeah. 00:29:19.104 --> 00:29:19.514 Yeah. 00:29:19.944 --> 00:29:23.274 Well, I get to help wrap this up, then I'll just say this. 00:29:23.284 --> 00:29:28.024 So basically, after all that, few things we can kinda take away from 00:29:28.024 --> 00:29:33.944 this is, one, if Arnold here saw this V shape, what else kind of remind us of? 00:29:34.054 --> 00:29:37.664 Um, let's see, what happened in March of 1997? 00:29:37.674 --> 00:29:38.824 The Phoenix Lights. 00:29:39.064 --> 00:29:39.279 Oh, the Phoenix Lights. 00:29:39.279 --> 00:29:40.514 That was in the shape of a V. 00:29:40.514 --> 00:29:40.534 Heather: Phoenix Lights. 00:29:40.534 --> 00:29:41.104 Yeah. 00:29:41.144 --> 00:29:46.024 Paul: So again, another great sighting that happened over the course of 00:29:46.924 --> 00:29:48.824 how many days or hours or whatever. 00:29:48.824 --> 00:29:49.854 Like, it was crazy. 00:29:49.854 --> 00:29:50.434 It was nuts. 00:29:50.967 --> 00:29:53.577 Anyway, so getting back to Arnold real quick. 00:29:53.587 --> 00:29:59.717 So the aftermath and legacy of what Arnold incident had happened, which 00:29:59.727 --> 00:30:05.097 was, like, you know, they described the object as erratic motion as being like a 00:30:05.097 --> 00:30:07.327 saucer if you skip it across the water. 00:30:07.697 --> 00:30:13.417 Uh, newspapers took the description to the craft were, like, saucer shape, a saucer 00:30:13.417 --> 00:30:16.497 shape, igniting the modern UFO phenomenon. 00:30:16.804 --> 00:30:20.404 Skeptics and official investigations later speculated that Arnold had 00:30:20.404 --> 00:30:27.404 observed mirages, flocks of pelicans, and/or reflected sunlight off of sundog. 00:30:27.664 --> 00:30:31.704 Which I guess I could see pelicans or any type of bird that are flying, because 00:30:31.714 --> 00:30:34.304 they do form, have that V formation. 00:30:34.304 --> 00:30:35.914 But come on, now. 00:30:36.314 --> 00:30:37.994 Sundog, that's a interesting one. 00:30:37.994 --> 00:30:41.184 I guess you maybe could get away with that back in the day. 00:30:41.194 --> 00:30:41.214 Jody: Yeah. 00:30:41.224 --> 00:30:42.884 Paul: But I don't know about that now. 00:30:42.894 --> 00:30:47.794 But anyway, and historically speaking now, the incident is widely considered 00:30:47.804 --> 00:30:52.907 the birth of the modern UFO era, it, prompted over 800 similar copycat 00:30:52.917 --> 00:30:56.677 sightings in the United States and over the following weeks of it. 00:30:56.847 --> 00:31:03.434 So I mean, you know, in the way of UFO, if it wasn't for Kenneth Arnold sighting, 00:31:03.964 --> 00:31:09.584 it, we wouldn't have, he wouldn't have been the catalyst for the modern UFO era. 00:31:09.980 --> 00:31:14.340 Heather: And yet he's just a, like a little pin in the, in the story. 00:31:14.350 --> 00:31:15.580 Like, we don't even really talk about him. 00:31:15.580 --> 00:31:16.880 We sort of just go over it and- 00:31:16.890 --> 00:31:17.490 Jody: Mm-hmm 00:31:18.330 --> 00:31:22.320 … Heather: we don't e- That's so interesting though, that he was a 00:31:22.320 --> 00:31:25.100 catalyst for something and then we don't even give him credit for it. 00:31:26.020 --> 00:31:26.410 Paul: Nope. 00:31:26.934 --> 00:31:30.590 that's why it's just interesting how, like I was saying I think, earlier 00:31:30.590 --> 00:31:34.550 in the chat, like how we hear more about Roswell really than this. 00:31:34.590 --> 00:31:39.360 Like, if it wasn't for whatever show it was that, or podcast or 00:31:39.360 --> 00:31:42.430 whatever it was back in the day that I listened to that said, "Oh, did 00:31:42.430 --> 00:31:45.080 you know that there was something before Roswell?" Like, wait, what? 00:31:45.360 --> 00:31:46.960 There was something before Roswell? 00:31:46.980 --> 00:31:47.294 Heather: Mm-hmm. 00:31:47.294 --> 00:31:49.280 Paul: I, I don't think I would've known, to be honest. 00:31:50.280 --> 00:31:54.910 Or maybe I have eventually, but you know, but at that point in time, I 00:31:54.910 --> 00:31:57.360 don't think I would've known, so. 00:31:57.770 --> 00:32:01.120 It's like that guy that I'm trying to think of, of his sighting right now. 00:32:01.120 --> 00:32:04.430 It's like, I can't think of his name, but when I do, maybe we can talk 00:32:04.440 --> 00:32:06.290 about it once I re-find him again. 00:32:07.390 --> 00:32:08.190 So I don't know. 00:32:08.630 --> 00:32:14.770 But real quick, uh, anybody else want to shine in on the UFO topic before 00:32:14.770 --> 00:32:16.770 we go into the other, the other one? 00:32:16.900 --> 00:32:18.560 Jody: Um, I do. 00:32:18.880 --> 00:32:19.520 I do. 00:32:19.550 --> 00:32:22.320 And I don't wanna… You know, I know I was the one saying, "Hey, let's 00:32:22.330 --> 00:32:23.990 try to keep this timely," right? 00:32:24.450 --> 00:32:24.730 Paul: Mm-hmm. 00:32:25.360 --> 00:32:27.290 Jody: But now you got me, Paul, so too bad. 00:32:29.440 --> 00:32:29.730 Paul: That's fine. 00:32:29.860 --> 00:32:33.150 Jody: So we were talking about paradigm shifts, and when 00:32:33.150 --> 00:32:34.980 these events sort of cluster. 00:32:35.980 --> 00:32:40.650 How do we explain the 2020s then, where we're having another one of these shifts? 00:32:40.650 --> 00:32:43.550 We have mass surveillance is a big thing now, right? 00:32:43.780 --> 00:32:44.130 Heather: Mm-hmm. 00:32:44.590 --> 00:32:46.110 Jody: We're building that right now. 00:32:46.760 --> 00:32:51.340 And everybody has a phone in their pocket, which means everybody has a camera. 00:32:51.380 --> 00:32:55.100 So anybody could capture this stuff any time, and people are doing it. 00:32:55.110 --> 00:32:56.550 You see it every day. 00:32:57.550 --> 00:32:58.920 Why doesn't anybody care? 00:32:59.920 --> 00:33:05.570 I feel like no one cares, like, about like the modern-day UFO sightings 00:33:05.590 --> 00:33:07.680 compared to, you know, the ones in the past, in the '70s, in the 00:33:07.680 --> 00:33:10.260 '60s, in the '50s, in the '40s. 00:33:11.260 --> 00:33:13.860 Like, it just seems like people are like, "Oh, yeah, that's another one." 00:33:13.860 --> 00:33:16.490 I mean, maybe it is because everybody has a camera in their pocket, you know? 00:33:16.780 --> 00:33:17.080 Heather: Mm-hmm. 00:33:18.080 --> 00:33:19.320 Jody: Or because the world is crazy. 00:33:19.370 --> 00:33:20.750 The world is pretty crazy right now. 00:33:20.750 --> 00:33:21.120 Gabrielle: We have, 00:33:21.590 --> 00:33:23.070 we have bigger problems. 00:33:23.200 --> 00:33:23.580 Jody: Yeah. 00:33:23.710 --> 00:33:30.394 Gabrielle: So seeing these things doesn't seem so emergent compared 00:33:30.394 --> 00:33:31.814 to other problems that we have. 00:33:32.184 --> 00:33:32.294 Jody: Yeah. 00:33:32.294 --> 00:33:37.410 Gabrielle: So if we see, like, this UFO phenomena, we're so numb to 00:33:37.420 --> 00:33:41.637 things happening at this point that we're like, "Whatever, I guess 00:33:41.667 --> 00:33:44.267 we'll just have UFOs too. Why not?" 00:33:45.267 --> 00:33:49.797 Heather: Do you think… And this is something, uh, oh, man, y- you got 00:33:49.797 --> 00:33:53.910 me going because, like, there is a huge history with UFOs and the UFO 00:33:53.930 --> 00:34:00.354 community and, uh, mirage men, people who come in and they say one thing. 00:34:00.700 --> 00:34:02.930 Richard Doty is, like, huge into that. 00:34:02.930 --> 00:34:07.230 He came in saying that he was an FBI informant, um, that he was a government 00:34:07.230 --> 00:34:10.820 informant, and then now he's like, "No, now I believe in disclosure," 00:34:11.090 --> 00:34:12.750 and then he's on the other side. 00:34:13.010 --> 00:34:16.080 Now he's, he's somebody who was like, "Well, I was used 00:34:16.080 --> 00:34:19.090 and so now you're supposed to believe everything that I say." 00:34:19.340 --> 00:34:23.930 And I'm like, you know, in 1990s you were kind of the enemy. 00:34:24.360 --> 00:34:28.820 Like- … if you, you've been in the UFO, and I'm not even a ufologist, I'm 00:34:28.820 --> 00:34:34.120 just somebody that keeps track of things, and there are HBO documentaries about 00:34:34.120 --> 00:34:38.867 Richard Doty and about how he claimed so many things that were just misinformation 00:34:38.867 --> 00:34:40.127 and that he was probably a plant. 00:34:40.527 --> 00:34:41.577 But now everybody loves him. 00:34:41.577 --> 00:34:43.037 They're like, "Oh, Richard Doty's like great. 00:34:43.057 --> 00:34:47.537 He's like so into disclosure." And I'm like… So, like, when people 00:34:47.537 --> 00:34:53.057 like Elizondo come out, and people like that, who are, like, so heavily 00:34:53.067 --> 00:34:57.437 into one narrative, I often wonder if the reason why people don't care 00:34:57.437 --> 00:35:03.577 about it so much, to get back to the question, is because we don't trust it. 00:35:04.460 --> 00:35:06.520 Because there have been so many plants. 00:35:06.540 --> 00:35:07.771 There have been so many people that- 00:35:07.771 --> 00:35:08.018 Jody: Yeah 00:35:08.300 --> 00:35:12.120 … Heather: think they're coming out, either, like with Elizondo, I don't 00:35:12.120 --> 00:35:13.470 know if he thinks he's a plant. 00:35:13.530 --> 00:35:17.420 I think he's a plant, but he may not think he's a plant. 00:35:17.420 --> 00:35:18.240 You know what I mean? 00:35:18.240 --> 00:35:21.520 Like he- Yeah … makes me think he's getting all this great information. 00:35:21.530 --> 00:35:24.690 But, like, any time anybody has any too much information 00:35:24.690 --> 00:35:26.230 like that, I'm always like- 00:35:26.250 --> 00:35:26.270 Jody: Yeah 00:35:26.270 --> 00:35:28.130 … Heather: "Where are you getting your information?" Because it 00:35:28.150 --> 00:35:29.600 seems a little too easy, right? 00:35:30.430 --> 00:35:30.670 Uh- 00:35:30.680 --> 00:35:34.660 Paul: My comment to that real quick would just be have you noticed the last 00:35:34.660 --> 00:35:40.580 few, last, like, chat that he's had, like, he's kinda changed his way of 00:35:40.630 --> 00:35:43.610 speaking ever since he released his book. 00:35:44.070 --> 00:35:48.220 Like, everything he'd want to say is, like, "It's all in my book." 00:35:48.870 --> 00:35:50.560 He's so trying to sell his book. 00:35:50.560 --> 00:35:51.575 It's all, he ne- he doesn't wanna believe in- 00:35:51.575 --> 00:35:52.690 Heather: That's what I'm saying. 00:35:53.110 --> 00:35:53.130 Paul: Yeah. 00:35:53.140 --> 00:35:57.440 Heather: You, the narrative changes so much after the years before. 00:35:57.910 --> 00:35:58.000 Paul: Mm-hmm. 00:35:58.000 --> 00:36:00.080 Heather: I don't know if he's saying this now, but when he came 00:36:00.080 --> 00:36:07.770 out, he saw the UFO phenomenon as a threat, as a, a threat to, uh, US 00:36:07.790 --> 00:36:10.050 and Amer- like, well, the world, um- 00:36:10.060 --> 00:36:11.120 Paul: The security, yeah 00:36:11.170 --> 00:36:11.870 Heather: security. 00:36:11.880 --> 00:36:15.290 Like, I don't know if he's saying that anymore, but that was his huge thing. 00:36:15.300 --> 00:36:19.866 He came out like, "I don't wanna do this. I'm out here to tell you guys that 00:36:19.866 --> 00:36:25.046 this is wrong." I think he softened that narrative, over the years he's more like, 00:36:25.046 --> 00:36:27.036 well, he's more neutral about it now. 00:36:27.836 --> 00:36:33.216 Um, but- I think it's all a PSYOP. 00:36:33.276 --> 00:36:33.756 I do. 00:36:33.906 --> 00:36:34.926 And I think that's why people- 00:36:35.186 --> 00:36:35.226 Jody: Yeah 00:36:36.226 --> 00:36:39.796 … Heather: I, I think they're selectively giving out information. 00:36:40.396 --> 00:36:41.886 And this is where you put your tinfoil hat on. 00:36:41.886 --> 00:36:44.286 I think they selectively give out information, even the stuff 00:36:44.286 --> 00:36:46.026 that was declassified recently. 00:36:46.036 --> 00:36:46.056 Paul: Mm-hmm. 00:36:46.486 --> 00:36:47.676 Heather: It's not new. 00:36:47.716 --> 00:36:48.986 It's just new to us. 00:36:49.736 --> 00:36:54.733 And a lot of it I've seen before in, in, shows that are, like, secret 00:36:54.733 --> 00:36:57.243 stuff where you're not supposed to know about this kind of thing. 00:36:57.243 --> 00:37:00.073 And I'm like, "Yeah, secret whatever." It's all the same shit. 00:37:00.163 --> 00:37:04.413 So, everything that was declassified, I was like, "Oh, okay. This looks like 00:37:04.413 --> 00:37:09.363 something else that I've seen." The, the most interesting thing for me was the, the 00:37:09.393 --> 00:37:11.283 astronauts who said that they saw stuff. 00:37:11.323 --> 00:37:14.463 And finally, there's declassified stuff that says, yes, they 00:37:14.463 --> 00:37:16.053 saw it, but we knew that too. 00:37:16.123 --> 00:37:17.923 It's just validation that- 00:37:17.923 --> 00:37:19.243 Paul: That was from the moon, right? 00:37:19.323 --> 00:37:19.783 Heather: Yeah. 00:37:19.853 --> 00:37:20.273 That they did see. 00:37:20.273 --> 00:37:20.563 Yeah, 00:37:20.563 --> 00:37:22.013 Paul: the dark moon mission from what I- 00:37:22.013 --> 00:37:22.353 Heather: Yeah 00:37:22.393 --> 00:37:22.963 … Paul: remember. 00:37:23.143 --> 00:37:23.443 Yeah. 00:37:23.813 --> 00:37:27.323 Heather: So, I mean, that's cool that we finally get validation, but anybody who 00:37:27.323 --> 00:37:31.033 is into the paranormal for, like, five minutes knows that that probably happened. 00:37:31.723 --> 00:37:31.883 Um- 00:37:32.093 --> 00:37:32.113 Paul: Yeah 00:37:32.373 --> 00:37:35.933 … Heather: that's, like, step one of, you know, that's step one of the iceberg, 00:37:35.933 --> 00:37:40.273 like, you learn about the dark side of the moon and you learn about the on Mars, 00:37:40.273 --> 00:37:41.683 and then you kinda go in from there. 00:37:41.713 --> 00:37:42.033 But- 00:37:42.393 --> 00:37:45.173 Paul: Yeah, pyramided on Mars and the weird structures I think, right? 00:37:45.183 --> 00:37:46.333 Heather: Yeah, the weird structures. 00:37:46.343 --> 00:37:48.753 Like, that's, that's your, your top tier shit. 00:37:48.763 --> 00:37:50.023 So, um- 00:37:50.767 --> 00:37:51.377 I don't know. 00:37:51.417 --> 00:37:56.457 I just, I feel like a lot of it is, is PSYOP. 00:37:56.537 --> 00:37:59.557 I feel like a lot of it is Project Blue Beam. 00:37:59.587 --> 00:38:04.617 I'm sort of interested in Steven Spielberg's new movie, not because it 00:38:04.617 --> 00:38:11.777 looks good, because pop culture tends to be, like, our way of getting us- 00:38:11.777 --> 00:38:12.047 Paul: Accepting 00:38:12.077 --> 00:38:15.097 Heather: ready for something. 00:38:15.317 --> 00:38:15.947 And if you notice- 00:38:15.977 --> 00:38:17.027 Paul: Yeah, slowly accepting it. 00:38:17.027 --> 00:38:17.117 Yeah 00:38:17.137 --> 00:38:20.027 … Heather: all of the UFO movies out have been about contact. 00:38:20.027 --> 00:38:20.847 Have you noticed that? 00:38:20.847 --> 00:38:20.887 Jody: Mm-hmm. 00:38:20.887 --> 00:38:20.957 Yep. 00:38:20.957 --> 00:38:22.567 Heather: About communication and contact? 00:38:23.367 --> 00:38:23.687 Jody: Yep. 00:38:24.227 --> 00:38:27.927 Heather: And I'm like, "Hmm, why are they feeding us this narrative?" 00:38:27.937 --> 00:38:29.467 Jody: Because that's what's coming next. 00:38:29.527 --> 00:38:29.807 That's- 00:38:29.817 --> 00:38:30.057 Heather: Right 00:38:30.057 --> 00:38:30.577 … Jody: Yeah, I get it. 00:38:31.267 --> 00:38:31.567 Heather: Yeah. 00:38:32.567 --> 00:38:32.817 Jody: Huh. 00:38:32.917 --> 00:38:38.037 Heather: So we'll see how people react to… Well, like, The Arrival was 00:38:38.037 --> 00:38:41.666 about that, and then now this movie, this disclosure movie, whatever it is. 00:38:42.137 --> 00:38:42.622 We'll see what's in it. 00:38:42.622 --> 00:38:42.747 Paul: Disclosure Day. 00:38:42.747 --> 00:38:42.767 Yeah. 00:38:43.477 --> 00:38:44.847 Heather: Because that's what they're trying to feed us. 00:38:44.847 --> 00:38:47.667 If people don't like it, they're not gonna do it. 00:38:47.747 --> 00:38:51.490 But if people love this movie like they did, Independence Day. 00:38:52.350 --> 00:38:52.620 Jody: Mm-hmm. 00:38:52.690 --> 00:38:55.170 Heather: Independence Day, we were killing the aliens, remember? 00:38:55.280 --> 00:38:55.510 Jody: Yeah. 00:38:55.920 --> 00:38:56.210 Yep. 00:38:56.410 --> 00:38:56.680 Oh, yeah. 00:38:57.090 --> 00:38:58.080 Heather: But now we're not doing that. 00:38:58.080 --> 00:38:59.380 Now we're communicating with them. 00:39:00.040 --> 00:39:00.346 Jody: Right. 00:39:00.739 --> 00:39:04.249 Heather: So we've changed the narrative again I don't know. 00:39:05.249 --> 00:39:06.029 Paul: No, I like that. 00:39:06.139 --> 00:39:06.389 Yep. 00:39:06.389 --> 00:39:07.059 Yep. 00:39:07.059 --> 00:39:08.529 Anybody else real… No? 00:39:08.829 --> 00:39:09.049 Yes? 00:39:09.839 --> 00:39:10.209 Okay. 00:39:11.209 --> 00:39:14.059 We'll, we'll just end on that then for the UFO for sure. 00:39:14.249 --> 00:39:14.559 All right. 00:39:14.579 --> 00:39:21.769 So yeah, so there's our input for the Kenneth Arnold, uh, 1947 sighting. 00:39:22.109 --> 00:39:26.859 We didn't get into how his thing got shot down, but trust me, just look into it. 00:39:26.859 --> 00:39:28.162 It's all crazy and bizarre. 00:39:36.193 --> 00:39:39.148 Jody: Don't forget to check us out at podcast of the paranormal.com. 00:39:39.763 --> 00:39:43.003 You could find links to our social media, links to our episodes. 00:39:43.273 --> 00:39:46.243 You could stream right from the website, or you could listen at 00:39:46.243 --> 00:39:47.893 your favorite podcast provider. 00:39:48.193 --> 00:39:52.183 If you want to come on the show, use our contact form or you can email us at 00:39:52.183 --> 00:39:55.183 contact at podcast of the paranormal.com. 00:40:01.657 --> 00:40:07.817 Paul: Anyway, next we're gonna sort of converge into another interesting topic. 00:40:07.827 --> 00:40:10.067 It's gonna be regarding fairies. 00:40:10.347 --> 00:40:13.797 Now, in order to do this, I have an interesting tale 00:40:13.797 --> 00:40:15.527 to start this one off with. 00:40:15.527 --> 00:40:19.070 I guess you could say coincides with what we were just talking about, UFOs. 00:40:19.607 --> 00:40:24.897 So there's an old tale from the Natives where they talked about this 00:40:24.907 --> 00:40:31.997 guy that had showed up to this person to help with growing, to help feed 00:40:32.007 --> 00:40:34.247 the tribe, their colony basically. 00:40:34.327 --> 00:40:41.277 But what was odd about this story was the being described himself 00:40:41.727 --> 00:40:49.097 as one from the stars, and he was wearing green and yellow or gold. 00:40:49.407 --> 00:40:51.627 And basically, what did that represent? 00:40:51.867 --> 00:40:53.057 Corn nowadays. 00:40:53.157 --> 00:41:00.377 Um, basically he says that you need to basically kill my body, 00:41:00.797 --> 00:41:04.027 and then drag it across the ground. 00:41:04.187 --> 00:41:08.857 And wherever my body had been dragged, the food will grow basically. 00:41:08.897 --> 00:41:14.987 However, the condition would be do not make any weeds grow around my body. 00:41:15.757 --> 00:41:21.394 And next thing you know, he did all this, and he was able to feed his, 00:41:21.414 --> 00:41:23.784 tribe or colony, which is interesting. 00:41:23.794 --> 00:41:29.514 So the fact that he said this guy came from the stars, hmm, 00:41:29.564 --> 00:41:30.584 what does that sound like? 00:41:30.654 --> 00:41:32.674 Anyway, going into this. 00:41:32.684 --> 00:41:38.864 So Heather, you sort of had a topic that you wanted to, discuss, and I'll 00:41:38.864 --> 00:41:40.304 guess I'll let you take it from here. 00:41:40.304 --> 00:41:43.484 But it was something involving the, the Cottingley Fairies. 00:41:43.484 --> 00:41:44.544 Heather: The Cottingley Fairies. 00:41:44.751 --> 00:41:49.341 But there is a huge, like it, like the UFO to fairy is not a huge leap. 00:41:49.491 --> 00:41:50.831 Like, um- 00:41:50.831 --> 00:41:51.081 Paul: No 00:41:51.311 --> 00:41:51.931 … Heather: wherever there- 00:41:51.931 --> 00:41:52.751 Paul: But some people might 00:41:53.211 --> 00:41:55.061 … Heather: wherever there's fairies, there's UFOs. 00:41:55.061 --> 00:41:58.841 I don't know why that's a thing, but they're… Some people say that 00:41:58.841 --> 00:42:04.201 fairies are interdimensional UFO people, that they're the ones that 00:42:04.201 --> 00:42:06.811 are riding the crafts with Bigfoot. 00:42:06.851 --> 00:42:07.321 I don't know. 00:42:08.101 --> 00:42:08.831 Like they- 00:42:08.841 --> 00:42:09.721 Paul: Or they are the one- 00:42:10.451 --> 00:42:10.721 Heather: Yeah 00:42:10.731 --> 00:42:11.531 … Paul: that are doing it all. 00:42:11.951 --> 00:42:15.551 Heather: Like, the interdimensional aspect of fairies is really interesting, 00:42:15.561 --> 00:42:18.507 because a lot of fairies, they- 00:42:19.144 --> 00:42:20.754 are keepers of portals. 00:42:21.604 --> 00:42:24.104 But then when wherever there's portals, there are UFOs, there's 00:42:24.104 --> 00:42:25.734 bigfoot, there's phenomenon. 00:42:25.754 --> 00:42:26.754 There's even ghosts. 00:42:26.754 --> 00:42:28.574 I mean, that's, that's kind of a thing. 00:42:28.584 --> 00:42:34.080 So, and supposedly UFOs u- use portals for inter-dimensional travel. 00:42:34.090 --> 00:42:35.120 So I don't, I don't know. 00:42:35.120 --> 00:42:37.040 It's… I always wondered about that. 00:42:37.040 --> 00:42:41.970 Like, a lot of what we think of as fairies is what now we think 00:42:41.970 --> 00:42:45.690 of as normal paranormal behavior. 00:42:45.910 --> 00:42:48.754 So but, … the Cottingley Fairies was actually, like, the 00:42:49.154 --> 00:42:53.184 first, like, real fairy sighting. 00:42:54.294 --> 00:42:55.854 But it wasn't really. 00:42:56.334 --> 00:42:58.024 But it was the first, like, publicized one. 00:42:58.024 --> 00:43:01.714 It was the first one that, people really knew about. 00:43:02.240 --> 00:43:05.650 like, it was… So basically what happened was there's this little girl, 00:43:06.270 --> 00:43:10.470 and she said that there were fairies in Cottingley, and she took a bunch of 00:43:10.470 --> 00:43:13.120 pictures of these, these, these fairies. 00:43:13.780 --> 00:43:16.274 And, I mean, if you look at the pictures now, you can 00:43:16.274 --> 00:43:17.634 tell that they're paper dolls. 00:43:17.644 --> 00:43:18.734 Like, you can just totally tell. 00:43:18.734 --> 00:43:19.794 I mean, the way that they're sitting- 00:43:19.924 --> 00:43:20.094 Jody: Mm-hmm 00:43:20.154 --> 00:43:20.664 … Heather: and everything. 00:43:20.664 --> 00:43:22.674 But back then, this is the 1800's, right? 00:43:22.674 --> 00:43:24.514 This is during the Spiritualism Movement. 00:43:25.084 --> 00:43:25.644 So, like- 00:43:25.734 --> 00:43:26.784 Paul: Uh, 1917. 00:43:26.784 --> 00:43:28.034 Heather: Yeah … 19- sorry, 1917. 00:43:28.114 --> 00:43:28.664 But yeah. 00:43:29.144 --> 00:43:33.154 It was, like, in the, in the heart of the Spiritualism Movement. 00:43:33.244 --> 00:43:36.434 And so, um, they were posted everywhere. 00:43:36.434 --> 00:43:37.814 They were in the newspaper. 00:43:37.814 --> 00:43:41.154 They were… I forget which magazine it was in, but it was… I wanna say it was 00:43:41.154 --> 00:43:42.414 Fate, but I don't know if that's true. 00:43:42.414 --> 00:43:43.114 But, um- 00:43:43.124 --> 00:43:43.924 Paul: Uh, 00:43:43.944 --> 00:43:44.964 Strand Magazine? 00:43:45.014 --> 00:43:45.384 Heather: Thank you. 00:43:45.394 --> 00:43:45.744 Strand. 00:43:45.754 --> 00:43:46.294 That's the other one. 00:43:46.294 --> 00:43:47.324 It was Fate and Strand. 00:43:47.864 --> 00:43:50.844 But the reason why it got so popular is because Arthur 00:43:50.844 --> 00:43:53.344 Conan Doyle got involved in it. 00:43:53.984 --> 00:43:57.554 But Arthur Conan Doyle believed in everything. 00:43:58.024 --> 00:44:01.054 So Arthur Conan Doyle, he had a wife that died. 00:44:01.444 --> 00:44:04.794 And when his wi- his wife died of, I can't remember, but she died 00:44:04.794 --> 00:44:06.524 of a disease, and she died young. 00:44:06.954 --> 00:44:11.904 And after that, he got really into the Spiritualism Movement because 00:44:12.104 --> 00:44:14.714 he wanted to talk to his dead wife. 00:44:15.334 --> 00:44:18.594 And so he went to a lot of seances and stuff like that. 00:44:18.604 --> 00:44:21.084 And he was really into spirit photography. 00:44:21.094 --> 00:44:22.154 That was, like, his thing. 00:44:22.224 --> 00:44:22.524 Jody: Hmm. 00:44:22.754 --> 00:44:26.614 Heather: So when he saw these pictures of these fairies, he actually 00:44:26.614 --> 00:44:29.534 went to Cottingley to talk to the little girl, and he got… It got 00:44:29.534 --> 00:44:31.614 really popular because of that. 00:44:31.634 --> 00:44:37.144 And then when it was debunked- He was very upset about it. 00:44:37.154 --> 00:44:38.184 He still believed in it. 00:44:38.244 --> 00:44:39.814 I mean, he said he still believed in it. 00:44:39.894 --> 00:44:41.004 I don't know if he really did. 00:44:41.004 --> 00:44:44.994 But he didn't like when things were debunked, like when spirit 00:44:44.994 --> 00:44:46.174 photography was debunked. 00:44:46.384 --> 00:44:47.414 He hated that. 00:44:47.424 --> 00:44:50.744 And I know he was at odds with the paranormal society 00:44:50.744 --> 00:44:51.774 at the time, the UK one. 00:44:52.084 --> 00:44:54.174 Because they went around and debunked stuff, and he thought that 00:44:54.174 --> 00:44:56.874 was ridiculous, that you shouldn't debunk people's experiences. 00:44:57.638 --> 00:45:00.528 And then he's had, he had the fights with Harry Houdini, 00:45:00.538 --> 00:45:02.168 which everybody knows about. 00:45:02.168 --> 00:45:04.238 Because Houdini was such a skeptic. 00:45:04.968 --> 00:45:09.308 But the fairies, he actually went and looked for the fairies, asked 00:45:09.308 --> 00:45:10.518 for more pictures of the fairies. 00:45:10.518 --> 00:45:12.078 Like, he got really involved. 00:45:12.088 --> 00:45:15.718 And, later on it was debunked that it was this little girl that was… 00:45:15.738 --> 00:45:21.508 And she, she actually admitted to it, that she was taking paper cutouts 00:45:21.528 --> 00:45:22.798 and putting them in the picture. 00:45:23.118 --> 00:45:23.148 Okay. 00:45:23.618 --> 00:45:24.928 So yeah. 00:45:25.928 --> 00:45:26.738 Paul: Yeah. 00:45:27.178 --> 00:45:32.838 They, uh, Ousi and Francis, um, I, uh, what is it, Grace maybe? 00:45:32.868 --> 00:45:35.768 I can't think, I can't remember what I just saw for the last name. 00:45:35.768 --> 00:45:38.988 But anyway, they had admitted what they did- 00:45:39.148 --> 00:45:39.468 Heather: Mm-hmm 00:45:39.468 --> 00:45:42.464 Paul: Was faked in the 1980s apparently. 00:45:42.774 --> 00:45:46.994 But yes, you're right, it was the spiritual photography aspect, 00:45:46.994 --> 00:45:51.968 which, I mean, I don't know about you guys, but I feel like spiritual 00:45:51.998 --> 00:45:56.388 photography, that's another one that does not get mentioned about anymore. 00:45:56.788 --> 00:46:01.098 And I think it's just because, again, it goes into the modern era of 00:46:01.108 --> 00:46:03.728 digital cameras and everything else. 00:46:03.788 --> 00:46:08.238 Nobody really want to say it's, a ghost or whatever. 00:46:08.278 --> 00:46:15.058 So yeah, I j- I just think there's a lot of avenue that the old ways has 00:46:15.068 --> 00:46:20.798 slowly become the path, even though it is important, as Gabrielle had said 00:46:21.498 --> 00:46:25.328 in our first chat, how it's important to go back to where it all began. 00:46:26.328 --> 00:46:31.320 And, it's interesting too, because Arthur Doyle actually came to Vermont 00:46:31.330 --> 00:46:36.026 to look for fairies after moving out of, England, I think it was, or maybe he was 00:46:36.026 --> 00:46:37.616 somewhere else, I can't remember- Scotland 00:46:37.616 --> 00:46:38.806 off the top of my… Scotland. 00:46:39.226 --> 00:46:39.656 Thank you. 00:46:39.706 --> 00:46:44.076 And, um, you know, even here when he tried to find fairies here in 00:46:44.076 --> 00:46:46.026 Vermont, it was just like he couldn't. 00:46:47.016 --> 00:46:47.426 So. 00:46:47.926 --> 00:46:47.946 Yeah. 00:46:47.946 --> 00:46:51.446 So we were kind of just left with the, uh, tales of the natives here. 00:46:52.069 --> 00:46:56.470 Heather: The spirit photography thing was so popular, though, during the, the 00:46:56.470 --> 00:46:58.730 Renaissance of the spiritualism movement. 00:46:58.730 --> 00:47:01.560 It was what you did. 00:47:01.560 --> 00:47:04.770 I mean, people talk about seances, but seances was just, like, a 00:47:04.770 --> 00:47:06.890 little small fraction of it. 00:47:07.150 --> 00:47:10.950 The talking boards, the spirit photography, the rapping, 00:47:11.316 --> 00:47:13.486 noises, was way more popular. 00:47:13.506 --> 00:47:14.146 That's what people did. 00:47:15.276 --> 00:47:16.456 Jody: Don't forget about the spirit horn. 00:47:17.056 --> 00:47:18.846 Heather: The spirit… Yes, the spirit horn. 00:47:19.846 --> 00:47:19.866 Yeah. 00:47:19.866 --> 00:47:20.866 It's obnoxious little thing. 00:47:21.046 --> 00:47:21.386 But 00:47:21.656 --> 00:47:21.676 Jody: yeah. 00:47:21.686 --> 00:47:22.746 Did you ever go down that road? 00:47:23.296 --> 00:47:23.566 Heather: Hmm? 00:47:23.636 --> 00:47:24.386 Jody: With the spirit horn? 00:47:24.536 --> 00:47:26.756 Did you ever go down that, that, the research with the spirit horn? 00:47:26.996 --> 00:47:28.796 Heather: Um, not as much. 00:47:28.796 --> 00:47:29.346 Jody: So some of them were- 00:47:29.346 --> 00:47:29.366 Heather: Go ahead 00:47:29.366 --> 00:47:33.366 … Jody: some of them were just used as, like, a, a spiritual object, just to 00:47:33.366 --> 00:47:35.846 be in the room to basically, attract- 00:47:36.846 --> 00:47:38.176 Paul: The customers or whatever? 00:47:38.566 --> 00:47:39.156 Jody: the spirits. 00:47:39.156 --> 00:47:39.396 Yeah. 00:47:39.486 --> 00:47:39.616 Oh, okay. 00:47:39.616 --> 00:47:41.256 Well no, not customers, the spirits. 00:47:41.326 --> 00:47:42.356 I guess- customers 00:47:42.356 --> 00:47:43.636 Paul: Gotcha, gotcha 00:47:43.996 --> 00:47:46.806 … Jody: the other way it was used was, like a, a magnifying, 00:47:47.206 --> 00:47:48.896 a, a sound magnifying device. 00:47:48.896 --> 00:47:49.146 You know? 00:47:49.146 --> 00:47:52.310 Like a horn that you would literally pull up to your ear and 00:47:52.310 --> 00:47:53.810 listen for voices in the room. 00:47:54.810 --> 00:47:55.280 Paul: Hmm. 00:47:55.280 --> 00:47:57.360 Jody: So it's kinda got like a dual aspect to it. 00:47:57.450 --> 00:48:02.720 You, you, you either have the actual tool, which is an amplifier, or it 00:48:02.720 --> 00:48:06.170 was just simply an object that you had in the room with you during a seance. 00:48:06.200 --> 00:48:07.690 Heather: That's fascinating. 00:48:07.690 --> 00:48:07.930 Paul: That's interesting. 00:48:08.400 --> 00:48:08.700 Yeah. 00:48:08.760 --> 00:48:09.070 Jody: Yeah. 00:48:10.050 --> 00:48:13.480 Paul: Yeah, 'cause every time I hear the horn I'm thinking of, "What?" 00:48:14.480 --> 00:48:15.740 " Can you speak louder?" Yeah. 00:48:15.790 --> 00:48:16.130 Sorry. 00:48:16.130 --> 00:48:16.270 Yeah. 00:48:16.340 --> 00:48:16.710 I, I- 00:48:16.720 --> 00:48:17.280 Jody: The hearing horn. 00:48:17.280 --> 00:48:17.530 Yeah. 00:48:17.860 --> 00:48:18.240 Paul: Yeah. 00:48:18.240 --> 00:48:19.100 Jody: No, I, yeah. 00:48:19.920 --> 00:48:21.380 Paul: Well, I'm part deaf- 00:48:21.380 --> 00:48:21.720 Gabrielle: They were actually used as- 00:48:21.720 --> 00:48:21.820 … Paul: so I'm allowed to do it 00:48:22.570 --> 00:48:23.840 … Gabrielle: they were used as hearing aids. 00:48:24.040 --> 00:48:24.200 Jody: Yeah. 00:48:24.670 --> 00:48:25.390 Gabrielle: The horns. 00:48:25.390 --> 00:48:26.100 Paul: It's, it's quite- 00:48:26.100 --> 00:48:26.440 Jody: They were 00:48:26.460 --> 00:48:27.100 … Paul: exactly. 00:48:27.390 --> 00:48:27.775 Oh, I know. 00:48:27.775 --> 00:48:28.030 Jody: Excuse the laughter. 00:48:28.030 --> 00:48:28.330 Paul: I know. 00:48:28.340 --> 00:48:29.550 That's why I'm saying it. 00:48:29.700 --> 00:48:29.840 Yeah. 00:48:30.530 --> 00:48:30.880 Yeah. 00:48:31.200 --> 00:48:31.520 Yeah. 00:48:31.570 --> 00:48:34.580 I can already hear it now with, like, my, my grandmother, "Huh?" 00:48:35.580 --> 00:48:37.140 Uh, re- may she rest in peace. 00:48:37.170 --> 00:48:37.850 Anyway, yeah. 00:48:37.850 --> 00:48:40.220 Heather: Well, the spirit cabinets are really interesting too. 00:48:40.230 --> 00:48:45.940 There was a, a, two brothers that, that carried around their spirit, cabinet, and 00:48:45.940 --> 00:48:47.450 they would go inside and do the rapping. 00:48:48.140 --> 00:48:48.450 Jody: Yeah. 00:48:49.330 --> 00:48:51.713 Heather: That's it's always fascinating to me too. 00:48:51.723 --> 00:48:57.513 Like, I just wonder, like… I mean, I know the Cottingley Fairies are fake, but- 00:48:58.513 --> 00:48:59.483 Paul: Right, but if you- 00:48:59.703 --> 00:49:01.083 Heather: Was there something really there? 00:49:01.103 --> 00:49:05.513 Like, I mean, just because it's fake doesn't mean that there 00:49:05.513 --> 00:49:06.643 wasn't something actually there. 00:49:06.653 --> 00:49:07.343 You know what I mean? 00:49:07.703 --> 00:49:12.083 And I always wonder if we get so caught up in the fake that we don't- 00:49:12.083 --> 00:49:12.313 Jody: Yeah 00:49:13.063 --> 00:49:15.273 Heather: ever go farther than that, if that makes sense. 00:49:15.403 --> 00:49:15.743 Jody: Yeah. 00:49:16.123 --> 00:49:16.933 Paul: No, that makes sense. 00:49:16.983 --> 00:49:22.233 Like, the way I would've taken it when I was first looking this up, especially 00:49:22.233 --> 00:49:25.013 with, who was this in this first photo? 00:49:25.053 --> 00:49:25.613 Elsie. 00:49:26.003 --> 00:49:26.433 Right. 00:49:26.453 --> 00:49:27.823 That's her n- that's their last name. 00:49:28.133 --> 00:49:28.433 Um- 00:49:29.233 --> 00:49:29.883 Heather: That's the most popular one, yeah. 00:49:30.073 --> 00:49:30.743 Paul: Yeah. 00:49:31.253 --> 00:49:34.103 The first thing I really thought of, even though you can, like Jody was 00:49:34.103 --> 00:49:38.498 saying, you can tell their, their, their paper cutout, but I mean- You can 00:49:38.498 --> 00:49:38.733 Heather: tell. 00:49:38.733 --> 00:49:39.983 I mean, it's like, it's so obnoxious. 00:49:40.173 --> 00:49:40.433 Paul: But- 00:49:40.673 --> 00:49:42.593 Heather: Well, by today's standards it is. 00:49:42.993 --> 00:49:43.443 Paul: Right. 00:49:43.443 --> 00:49:43.663 Yeah, yeah. 00:49:43.663 --> 00:49:49.733 But, like, if, if, if I would… Okay, I'm gonna try to do my, my mindset 00:49:49.743 --> 00:49:55.963 back to, like in the 1970s, 17s I mean, which would be, uh, if I was seeing 00:49:55.963 --> 00:49:59.853 this, I would almost first think, "Yeah, that could be real." But going 00:49:59.863 --> 00:50:04.773 back to what you're saying, we could almost look at it as her imagination. 00:50:05.193 --> 00:50:07.193 Like, almost like- Yeah … the imaginary friend. 00:50:07.523 --> 00:50:07.753 Heather: Right. 00:50:07.893 --> 00:50:11.343 Paul: Especially as you just put it, maybe there was something else 00:50:11.353 --> 00:50:15.703 actually there, which could be the imaginary friend or something. 00:50:16.573 --> 00:50:17.273 Or friends. 00:50:17.803 --> 00:50:20.323 Heather: Or, like, why did she c- why did she come up with the idea? 00:50:20.333 --> 00:50:24.413 I mean, I think we always see stuff like that, and I think that's why I 00:50:24.413 --> 00:50:26.603 wanted to talk about it, is 'cause we always see stuff like that and 00:50:26.603 --> 00:50:27.763 we're like, "Oh, it was so fake." 00:50:27.773 --> 00:50:32.103 Even with spirit photography, like, a lot of them were doctored, right? 00:50:32.123 --> 00:50:37.303 But- What if that was someone's imagination? 00:50:37.303 --> 00:50:41.443 What if that was some- in someone's head, that particular person or that, the 00:50:41.443 --> 00:50:47.600 way that it showed up, and that was the way that it was able to present itself. 00:50:47.660 --> 00:50:52.530 Like just because it's fake doesn't mean that it is, especially back 00:50:52.530 --> 00:50:57.920 then, it doesn't mean that it wasn't part of true phenomenon. 00:50:57.960 --> 00:50:58.960 It just means- 00:50:58.970 --> 00:50:59.497 Paul: Mm-hmm. 00:51:00.135 --> 00:51:01.055 Heather: Do you know what I'm trying to say though? 00:51:01.065 --> 00:51:05.055 It's like if you're thinking of it and you're creating it. 00:51:05.555 --> 00:51:05.855 Jody: Yeah. 00:51:06.855 --> 00:51:10.495 Heather: Even though you have to create it, doesn't, is, that 00:51:10.495 --> 00:51:12.045 doesn't mean that it's not real. 00:51:13.045 --> 00:51:16.065 It just means you don't have the tools in order to see it, if that makes sense. 00:51:16.075 --> 00:51:20.865 Paul: Or you do have the tools, which would be if we look at where the 00:51:20.885 --> 00:51:25.325 inspiration of these illustrations came from, it would be from 00:51:25.335 --> 00:51:29.415 Princess Mary's Gift Book from 1914. 00:51:29.955 --> 00:51:35.545 Because this book, where some of these illustrations even came from, down near 00:51:35.545 --> 00:51:42.204 the bottom, this book was sort of made to help get profit because in the end, 00:51:42.234 --> 00:51:47.654 any copy of this Princess Mary Gift Book that was sold, it was to be given 00:51:47.654 --> 00:51:52.214 to the Queen's Work for Women Fund. 00:51:52.704 --> 00:51:58.514 So what if she was trying to use her imagination to try to get people to 00:51:58.514 --> 00:52:04.754 buy it, so that way it would help with this Work for Women Funding thing. 00:52:05.754 --> 00:52:10.254 Uh, I mean, I guess in a way it's almost like, uh, you know, the stupid salespeople 00:52:10.254 --> 00:52:12.014 that are trying to sell the snake oil. 00:52:12.804 --> 00:52:14.454 We could go into, down that again. 00:52:14.454 --> 00:52:15.984 It's al- could that be similar? 00:52:16.044 --> 00:52:16.784 I mean, maybe. 00:52:16.854 --> 00:52:22.126 But again, we're talking, I think I read a 16-year-old? 00:52:22.780 --> 00:52:27.740 yeah, 16-year-old that may just wanna just, have it to be real, therefore 00:52:27.790 --> 00:52:29.270 they were trying to make it look real. 00:52:30.270 --> 00:52:33.310 So then again, that goes into I think what you were saying, right? 00:52:33.590 --> 00:52:34.370 Having the tools. 00:52:34.370 --> 00:52:34.750 Heather: Yeah. 00:52:35.520 --> 00:52:37.380 I mean- I don't know. 00:52:37.400 --> 00:52:40.380 So much, so much is born in the imagination, but then where 00:52:40.380 --> 00:52:41.730 does the imagination come from? 00:52:41.760 --> 00:52:44.856 If that comes from a collective consciousness, then a lot of times 00:52:44.856 --> 00:52:47.306 what we're picking up through collective consciousness could be real. 00:52:47.476 --> 00:52:49.666 We just don't realize it's real, right? 00:52:50.666 --> 00:52:55.636 I mean… the, the, I don't know, the spiritual, spiritualism movement to me is 00:52:55.636 --> 00:52:59.376 very interesting because there's, like, two things going on at the same time. 00:52:59.766 --> 00:53:05.466 One is that we're having to, like, really face the, the paranormal. 00:53:06.136 --> 00:53:10.326 But the other side of it, too, is that it was the one and only time in that kind 00:53:10.326 --> 00:53:12.946 of history where women actually could be- 00:53:13.481 --> 00:53:15.581 anything other than a mother or a whore. 00:53:15.941 --> 00:53:17.611 Like, those are your choices, right? 00:53:17.611 --> 00:53:21.521 You can either, like, get married and have kids or you could, you know- 00:53:22.311 --> 00:53:24.021 You could, uh, become a prostitute. 00:53:24.581 --> 00:53:28.271 And during the spiritualism movement, you could… also become a psychic. 00:53:28.311 --> 00:53:31.821 And so People took that seriously enough where you could actually 00:53:31.821 --> 00:53:36.201 get a job doing it, and, thrive, and become popular and rich. 00:53:37.151 --> 00:53:39.671 There was a lot of women that became rich during that time, and 00:53:39.671 --> 00:53:42.531 then they invested well and, and they didn't have to get married. 00:53:42.591 --> 00:53:48.161 Or they were widows, and so they didn't have to, like, have a man. 00:53:48.941 --> 00:53:52.041 And so it's just an interesting part of history, because people 00:53:52.041 --> 00:53:55.781 love to debunk it, and love to say, "Oh, everybody was a charlatan." 00:53:56.101 --> 00:54:00.931 But I wonder how much of that is really misogyny, and not, and not 00:54:00.931 --> 00:54:02.871 because everybody was making stuff up. 00:54:02.911 --> 00:54:09.361 I, I think the level of making stuff up is, like, there's always charlatans, any 00:54:09.361 --> 00:54:11.451 time in the spiritual community, even now. 00:54:11.481 --> 00:54:14.931 So I think it… And I don't think it was more, I think it was the same. 00:54:15.361 --> 00:54:19.911 But because it was such a women-based thing, the idea that 00:54:19.911 --> 00:54:24.311 it had to be fake, is so prevalent. 00:54:24.731 --> 00:54:31.031 Because if it was all men, it would not have the same history. 00:54:31.391 --> 00:54:35.011 And if you notice, Harry Price and the paranormal societies 00:54:35.011 --> 00:54:36.151 were all men, not women. 00:54:36.151 --> 00:54:38.431 There were not very many women in the paranormal society. 00:54:38.431 --> 00:54:42.841 It was always men going around debunking women, which I think is amazing. 00:54:43.731 --> 00:54:45.751 And even with the Coddingley Fairies, it was a bunch of little 00:54:45.751 --> 00:54:47.741 girls that were doing it, right? 00:54:48.741 --> 00:54:49.781 So it has to be fake. 00:54:49.831 --> 00:54:54.781 I mean, it is fake, but If it were little boys, no one would even question it. 00:54:55.591 --> 00:54:56.531 So I think it's interesting. 00:54:57.531 --> 00:54:57.751 Jody: Yeah 00:54:58.308 --> 00:55:02.548 Paul: it's still fascinating because it makes me wonder what these 00:55:02.548 --> 00:55:04.578 little girls were going through. 00:55:04.578 --> 00:55:08.268 And that's why it goes back to, you know, maybe that's why they 00:55:08.268 --> 00:55:11.898 wanted to make it seem like this was real, 'cause they wanted it to be 00:55:11.898 --> 00:55:15.728 their, their own, um, wonderland. 00:55:15.818 --> 00:55:18.928 I don't know if I wanna say it like that, but I don't know any other way to put it 00:55:19.928 --> 00:55:20.278 Hmm. 00:55:20.828 --> 00:55:25.008 It's just fascinating though that what, how I kinda began this, uh, with that 00:55:25.018 --> 00:55:29.108 native tale, how, you know, this being was saying they were from the stars. 00:55:29.148 --> 00:55:36.428 So therefore it's like, well then would it be considered extraterrestrial? 00:55:36.438 --> 00:55:40.168 Or are we just kinda going back to, I believe it was the first chat 00:55:40.168 --> 00:55:41.818 you wanna, you all did with us. 00:55:42.218 --> 00:55:48.018 Like we all did, I should say, is like, you know, so it just, just one thing, 00:55:48.288 --> 00:55:51.808 but we're just all sub-categorizing everything that's going on. 00:55:52.808 --> 00:55:53.008 Heather: Yeah. 00:55:53.008 --> 00:55:54.208 What do you guys think of fairies? 00:55:55.208 --> 00:55:56.058 Jody: Oh. 00:55:57.058 --> 00:55:58.358 Paul: Gabrielle, you've been quiet. 00:55:58.358 --> 00:56:00.728 Jody: Fairies, fairies are a new thing to me. 00:56:01.638 --> 00:56:02.318 Gab, what do you- 00:56:03.318 --> 00:56:05.978 Gabrielle: I've known about the Cottingley Fairies since I was a kid. 00:56:06.528 --> 00:56:10.508 And they always interested me because, like you Paul, like what was going 00:56:10.508 --> 00:56:14.688 on in their lives that made them feel like they had to create this. 00:56:15.428 --> 00:56:17.678 And it, it is really interesting. 00:56:18.248 --> 00:56:22.358 I mean, as far as spiritualism, it always interested me because it was a time 00:56:22.358 --> 00:56:29.171 when we were severely faced with our own mortality, and that was what we created. 00:56:29.171 --> 00:56:30.851 We created life after death. 00:56:31.681 --> 00:56:36.711 And I would love to have been around for that time, ' cause I think it 00:56:36.711 --> 00:56:38.421 would have been so fascinating. 00:56:39.121 --> 00:56:42.221 And like we'll travel, and I always try to find… 00:56:42.291 --> 00:56:43.051 Where were we? 00:56:43.051 --> 00:56:47.381 I can't remember if it was New York or if it was DC, and they 00:56:47.381 --> 00:56:51.771 had like one of the first, like, spiritualist churches in the area. 00:56:52.481 --> 00:56:56.011 And I was like, "Oh, I'd love to go there and see what that's like." Um, 00:56:56.011 --> 00:56:58.921 and it was like still in operation, and you could still go, and you could 00:56:58.921 --> 00:57:00.911 sit in on, like, one of their masses. 00:57:00.911 --> 00:57:01.181 Jody: Was that in Boston? 00:57:01.181 --> 00:57:02.821 Gabrielle: And I was like, that would've been really cool. 00:57:03.311 --> 00:57:04.421 It might've been Boston. 00:57:04.421 --> 00:57:04.631 Jody: It was, um- 00:57:05.631 --> 00:57:07.591 Gabrielle: I can't remember if it was in like the Hudson Valley 00:57:07.591 --> 00:57:09.531 or if it was maybe in Boston 00:57:09.531 --> 00:57:11.681 Jody: I think it was in Boston, 'cause it had, there was a 00:57:11.681 --> 00:57:13.411 connection to Maparium, right? 00:57:13.591 --> 00:57:15.611 Wasn't, wasn't that where it was- 00:57:15.631 --> 00:57:16.081 Gabrielle: No. 00:57:16.081 --> 00:57:16.187 No 00:57:16.187 --> 00:57:16.859 Paul: I'm seeing Massachusetts 00:57:16.859 --> 00:57:17.541 Gabrielle: I'm seeing Massachusetts 00:57:17.541 --> 00:57:19.471 did She was Christian Science. 00:57:19.551 --> 00:57:20.371 Jody: Oh, Christian Science. 00:57:20.371 --> 00:57:20.991 Yeah, sorry. 00:57:21.701 --> 00:57:24.951 Gabrielle: But yeah, but the fairies, it, it just… And I feel like too, 00:57:24.951 --> 00:57:29.081 in a way, can we relate it back to the conversation that we're having about 00:57:29.081 --> 00:57:31.701 like the Patterson-Gimlin footage, right? 00:57:31.721 --> 00:57:34.441 Like, if we didn't have that footage, we wouldn't be talking 00:57:34.441 --> 00:57:35.881 about Bigfoot like we do now. 00:57:36.181 --> 00:57:40.481 So if those girls hadn't made those fairies, would people be talking 00:57:40.491 --> 00:57:41.941 about fairies like they do now? 00:57:42.741 --> 00:57:43.151 You know? 00:57:43.151 --> 00:57:47.881 So you almost needed that to kind of act as the catalyst to start the 00:57:47.881 --> 00:57:50.021 conversation and people's belief. 00:57:50.791 --> 00:57:51.191 Jody: Yeah. 00:57:51.281 --> 00:57:53.741 Fairies to me have always been, you know- 00:57:54.741 --> 00:57:56.041 Little flying creatures with wings, right? 00:57:56.851 --> 00:58:01.081 'Cause, uh, you know, I, I grew up in the 1980s, so like that's, that's Tinker Bell. 00:58:01.081 --> 00:58:01.681 You know what I mean? 00:58:02.681 --> 00:58:04.831 That's how I was- that's my introduction to fairies. 00:58:04.831 --> 00:58:08.371 That's everything I knew about fairies until I started digging into it 00:58:08.401 --> 00:58:12.551 and looking at, like, the different cultures and, you know, what they are. 00:58:12.551 --> 00:58:14.608 And no, they're not little creatures with wings. 00:58:14.608 --> 00:58:17.048 They're all different shapes and sizes. 00:58:17.048 --> 00:58:22.808 And I just think it's, uh, some of my personal experiences, you know, got 00:58:22.808 --> 00:58:25.288 me to look into, you know, the fae. 00:58:25.298 --> 00:58:30.808 And I'm drawing a lot of lines, connecting a lot of, you know, connecting a lot 00:58:30.808 --> 00:58:32.448 of dots, and ticking a lot of boxes. 00:58:32.448 --> 00:58:36.478 And I'm like, "Hell, maybe there's something to this." Now wh- what is it? 00:58:36.958 --> 00:58:38.961 you know, I don't know I've never seen a portal. 00:58:39.161 --> 00:58:40.411 Portals are real, right Heather? 00:58:40.951 --> 00:58:41.311 Heather: Sure. 00:58:43.091 --> 00:58:45.711 Gabrielle: And do you wanna see me tie fairies back to the 00:58:45.711 --> 00:58:47.231 first part of our conversation? 00:58:47.331 --> 00:58:47.711 Heather: Sure. 00:58:48.459 --> 00:58:53.329 Gabrielle: So, in The Invisible College, Jacques Vallée said that he 00:58:53.329 --> 00:58:58.529 believes that when Joe Simonton had his experience, his contact with the 00:58:58.529 --> 00:59:01.109 UFO, and they offered him the pancakes- 00:59:01.919 --> 00:59:01.949 Heather: Mm-hmm 00:59:02.759 --> 00:59:07.499 Gabrielle: that that seems very odd for someone in a UFO, for like 00:59:07.509 --> 00:59:10.889 an alien, if you wanna call it that, to be making that offering. 00:59:10.949 --> 00:59:12.539 But the fairies might do that. 00:59:12.659 --> 00:59:13.079 Heather: Yeah, they would too. 00:59:13.079 --> 00:59:17.269 Gabrielle: So were they actually fairies that were in the UFO? 00:59:17.499 --> 00:59:22.399 So then you could say, like, then are all of these experiences just fae? 00:59:22.419 --> 00:59:24.399 Have fae taken a new form for us? 00:59:25.399 --> 00:59:28.229 Heather: See, that's the, that's always the question and, but, but 00:59:28.229 --> 00:59:31.889 going back to what you said about Cottingley, like even though that's 00:59:31.889 --> 00:59:37.439 not real, the concept has to come through consciousness somewhere, right? 00:59:38.439 --> 00:59:38.799 And- 00:59:38.959 --> 00:59:39.229 Jody: Yeah 00:59:39.689 --> 00:59:40.639 … Heather: it has to. 00:59:41.219 --> 00:59:46.419 So even though it's fake, it doesn't really matter because it, it's moving 00:59:46.419 --> 00:59:49.739 into universal consciousness, and now we have this idea of fairies, and 00:59:49.739 --> 00:59:51.219 then the fairies can show themselves. 00:59:51.729 --> 00:59:56.589 So- Sometimes I feel like imagination and making stuff up, like with spirit 00:59:56.589 --> 01:00:03.859 photography, without spirit photography, we wouldn't be looking for ghosts in 2007. 01:00:03.859 --> 01:00:04.389 You know what I mean? 01:00:04.599 --> 01:00:10.229 Like, we, we wouldn't be using EMF detectors and stuff. 01:00:10.229 --> 01:00:11.299 We wouldn't be taking pictures. 01:00:11.579 --> 01:00:14.359 Without that horn, we wouldn't be doing EVPs. 01:00:15.359 --> 01:00:15.639 So- 01:00:15.639 --> 01:00:15.909 Jody: Right. 01:00:16.819 --> 01:00:19.759 Heather: So it doesn't matter if it's real or not, it's just how it moves into 01:00:19.779 --> 01:00:25.159 the, into the energy of now, you know? 01:00:25.169 --> 01:00:31.119 So yeah, but you got me on fairies and thinking about, oh, my God, 01:00:31.119 --> 01:00:34.175 what if they're all just fairies and they're all just everything? 01:00:34.185 --> 01:00:38.515 Like, what if the control theory is just fairies? 01:00:40.715 --> 01:00:41.125 You know? 01:00:41.135 --> 01:00:44.255 Paul: Well, it's just everything is what we've been calling it, it just one thing, 01:00:44.255 --> 01:00:44.565 but we're just calling it something else. 01:00:44.565 --> 01:00:44.575 Yeah. 01:00:44.575 --> 01:00:45.435 Heather: Just one thing. 01:00:45.435 --> 01:00:45.805 Yeah. 01:00:45.805 --> 01:00:49.695 Which is, which is control theory, but it's also super spectrum. 01:00:49.785 --> 01:00:51.345 It's, it's all of it. 01:00:51.405 --> 01:00:57.055 It's… I always wonder why they parse out control, like Jacques Vallée and 01:00:57.065 --> 01:00:59.815 John Keel, 'cause they're both saying the same thing, just in different ways. 01:01:00.375 --> 01:01:00.595 Um- 01:01:00.955 --> 01:01:01.215 Gabrielle: Mm-hmm 01:01:01.305 --> 01:01:03.705 … Heather: there's so much overlap with that. 01:01:03.705 --> 01:01:03.765 Paul: Totally. 01:01:04.449 --> 01:01:04.709 Yeah. 01:01:04.989 --> 01:01:11.249 Heather: Um, but it is the idea that it's all one thing, it's all one phenomenon. 01:01:11.559 --> 01:01:13.909 But, like, but why are they flying around? 01:01:13.919 --> 01:01:15.379 Like, what's the point of it? 01:01:15.409 --> 01:01:17.019 What's the point of UFOs, right? 01:01:17.229 --> 01:01:17.959 I always wonder that. 01:01:18.009 --> 01:01:19.029 Like, what is the point? 01:01:20.029 --> 01:01:24.299 Jody: I mean, unless it's something that we've created, human beings have as a, 01:01:24.369 --> 01:01:29.039 as a object from our collect- collective, uh, conscious and, uh, you know, are they, 01:01:29.069 --> 01:01:30.779 are they giving you what you want to see? 01:01:31.779 --> 01:01:33.459 It's like, oh, you're willing to accept this? 01:01:33.519 --> 01:01:36.089 That's how we're gonna present ourselves, you know? 01:01:37.089 --> 01:01:37.429 I don't know. 01:01:37.829 --> 01:01:41.259 Heather: But I also wonder what is, what is this need for communication? 01:01:41.269 --> 01:01:45.909 Like, if w- if that's the next step, we're now talking to them, but why? 01:01:46.379 --> 01:01:47.599 Why are we talking to them? 01:01:47.599 --> 01:01:48.549 What is the point? 01:01:49.329 --> 01:01:49.569 Gabrielle: Yeah. 01:01:49.569 --> 01:01:50.429 Who has the need? 01:01:50.439 --> 01:01:51.329 Is it us or them? 01:01:51.499 --> 01:01:51.999 Heather: Right. 01:01:52.279 --> 01:01:53.329 I don't think it's us. 01:01:54.329 --> 01:01:56.459 Jody: I think it's increasingly us, though. 01:01:56.919 --> 01:01:57.009 Heather: You think so? 01:01:57.019 --> 01:01:59.319 Jody: I know for me pers- for me personally, yeah. 01:02:00.189 --> 01:02:03.709 I never thought I'd be m- I never thought I'd be strapping on a set 01:02:03.709 --> 01:02:06.949 of headphones, a blindfold, and a spirit box and doing this stuff. 01:02:06.959 --> 01:02:07.479 You know what I mean? 01:02:07.489 --> 01:02:09.129 Like, but I am, so 01:02:10.129 --> 01:02:10.589 Heather: But once- 01:02:10.589 --> 01:02:10.929 Jody: And here we 01:02:10.929 --> 01:02:11.189 are 01:02:12.189 --> 01:02:16.659 … Heather: once you bring aliens into the conversation though, and you start to- 01:02:17.119 --> 01:02:20.359 like now we're talking to them, and now they're presenting themselves, 01:02:20.789 --> 01:02:24.479 that is kind of a disservice to Christianity as a whole. 01:02:25.349 --> 01:02:26.889 Sort of ruins the narrative. 01:02:26.889 --> 01:02:30.739 It sort of ruins the idea that there's this omnipresent force that is only 01:02:30.739 --> 01:02:33.429 God, because now we have aliens. 01:02:33.899 --> 01:02:39.189 So again, I just wonder why they're… Like, why are we changing the paradigm? 01:02:40.049 --> 01:02:40.189 Jody: Interesting. 01:02:40.189 --> 01:02:42.379 Gabrielle: So I can say a few things. 01:02:42.399 --> 01:02:46.429 Number one, I think it's very interesting, Heather, that- … I 01:02:46.429 --> 01:02:49.919 don't know if you've recently gotten into aliens, but we recently have. 01:02:50.169 --> 01:02:50.569 Jody: Yeah. 01:02:50.819 --> 01:02:55.129 Gabrielle: And they have been quite religious with us. 01:02:55.939 --> 01:02:56.319 Saying- 01:02:56.329 --> 01:02:56.709 Jody: Symbolically 01:02:56.759 --> 01:03:00.279 … Gabrielle: Yes, talking about things like archetypes, like God 01:03:00.279 --> 01:03:03.169 and Satan, and talking about them. 01:03:03.388 --> 01:03:12.688 But as far as that, I will say in the Bible, when God said, "Do not worship any 01:03:12.738 --> 01:03:19.808 false idols before me," that would imply that there are other idols to worship 01:03:20.808 --> 01:03:21.128 Heather: Right. 01:03:21.258 --> 01:03:21.358 Gabrielle: So… 01:03:22.398 --> 01:03:25.813 Heather: that's still It's a shaky foundation, right? 01:03:25.813 --> 01:03:26.583 Gabrielle: Right. 01:03:27.403 --> 01:03:30.953 Heather: Because are these the false idols, or are we, are we going to war? 01:03:31.953 --> 01:03:33.133 What are we doing with it, right? 01:03:33.133 --> 01:03:34.853 Or are we already at war? 01:03:35.163 --> 01:03:35.933 Right. 01:03:36.483 --> 01:03:41.023 Because if people start believing in aliens, in these false idols, as you 01:03:41.023 --> 01:03:44.103 say, then they have to be the enemy. 01:03:44.203 --> 01:03:49.023 They can't be… They can't just be nice or friendly, right? 01:03:49.043 --> 01:03:54.323 Because then, you know, we're basically, we're basically creating our golden calf. 01:03:55.323 --> 01:03:56.793 Gabrielle: But do they have to be false? 01:03:57.793 --> 01:04:00.723 Heather: They have to if you want the prevailing paradigm of 01:04:00.733 --> 01:04:02.483 Christianity, they have to be. 01:04:02.883 --> 01:04:04.003 Jody: It's a control structure. 01:04:04.003 --> 01:04:05.023 That's what religion is. 01:04:05.103 --> 01:04:05.693 Heather: Right. 01:04:05.693 --> 01:04:05.823 Jody: True. 01:04:05.823 --> 01:04:06.073 True. 01:04:06.073 --> 01:04:08.623 It's a way of keeping people together. 01:04:09.553 --> 01:04:10.033 Heather: Right. 01:04:10.543 --> 01:04:10.623 And 01:04:11.483 --> 01:04:11.573 if you start- 01:04:11.573 --> 01:04:13.913 Jody: Believe, well, one thing and yeah. 01:04:14.433 --> 01:04:14.673 Go ahead 01:04:14.673 --> 01:04:17.253 … Heather: An alien's not in that unless you're a Mormon. 01:04:17.563 --> 01:04:19.573 I mean, the Mormons are probably really happy about it. 01:04:19.583 --> 01:04:20.703 They're giddy right now. 01:04:21.703 --> 01:04:21.733 But, 01:04:23.983 --> 01:04:28.393 but Christianity as a whole is, it's, there's a lot of holes all of a sudden. 01:04:29.063 --> 01:04:29.393 You know what I mean? 01:04:29.393 --> 01:04:31.663 Jody: I haven't heard a lot from, Catholics though about 01:04:31.663 --> 01:04:32.303 it, you know what I mean? 01:04:32.313 --> 01:04:32.333 Yeah. 01:04:32.343 --> 01:04:37.513 It's more, um, a lot of the offshoots, evangelicals and stuff like that, they're 01:04:37.513 --> 01:04:39.003 the ones that are really hung up on it. 01:04:39.003 --> 01:04:42.473 Like, "Oh my God, this can't be, this can't be real 'cause if, if this is 01:04:42.473 --> 01:04:47.003 real, then everything we know is… You know, what does that mean?" You know? 01:04:47.023 --> 01:04:49.323 Paul: Well, I'll counter, I'll counteract that one for a minute. 01:04:49.343 --> 01:04:54.203 There's a, there's a new article that is floating around now, I think it 01:04:54.213 --> 01:04:56.883 might have been from Coast to Coast AM. 01:04:57.243 --> 01:04:57.403 Jody: Mm-hmm. 01:04:57.483 --> 01:05:03.553 Paul: Uh, supposedly this priest has lost his exorcism license because 01:05:03.693 --> 01:05:05.773 he came out talking about UFOs 01:05:06.323 --> 01:05:06.653 Heather: Hmm. 01:05:07.593 --> 01:05:08.223 Interesting. 01:05:08.233 --> 01:05:10.543 That does not surprise me though. 01:05:10.603 --> 01:05:11.923 That doesn't surprise me at all. 01:05:12.203 --> 01:05:12.523 Paul: No. 01:05:13.293 --> 01:05:18.353 Heather: So I'm gonna go tinfoil hat here, but one of the things that I did 01:05:18.353 --> 01:05:22.333 notice is that Nick Pope died, right? 01:05:22.363 --> 01:05:26.453 And he all of a sudden got cancer, like really quick there, and he, he was out 01:05:26.463 --> 01:05:31.293 within like six months of him, even, probably less, of him talking about it. 01:05:31.293 --> 01:05:32.613 He got stage four cancer, right? 01:05:32.623 --> 01:05:33.603 Like really quickly. 01:05:33.613 --> 01:05:33.893 Jody: Mm-hmm. 01:05:34.203 --> 01:05:37.553 Heather: Um, he might have had it before and just didn't talk about 01:05:37.553 --> 01:05:38.773 it, but that's when it came out. 01:05:39.113 --> 01:05:47.533 But he was one of the most loud people when it came to Christianity and UFOs. 01:05:47.563 --> 01:05:48.573 He talked about it a lot. 01:05:48.603 --> 01:05:52.413 I've, I've been to a few of his talks, and he always talks about how 01:05:53.413 --> 01:05:57.373 a lot of the stuff that we know now we knew in the '90s when he was part 01:05:57.413 --> 01:06:01.013 of, um, the government in the UK. 01:06:01.403 --> 01:06:03.983 And the reason why a lot of the stuff didn't come out is because 01:06:03.983 --> 01:06:05.923 Christians said hell to the no. 01:06:06.573 --> 01:06:08.343 This, they're demons. 01:06:08.633 --> 01:06:09.903 UFOs are demons. 01:06:09.943 --> 01:06:12.513 Like you said, they're the, the enemy, right? 01:06:13.100 --> 01:06:16.260 And it's just, I just thought it was fascinating that I'm like, huh, we're 01:06:16.260 --> 01:06:19.420 moving into disclosure, and he dies. 01:06:19.970 --> 01:06:22.120 I'm like, well, that's an interesting correlation. 01:06:23.010 --> 01:06:26.957 And then all of a sudden, Von Däniken, I know he, he died of old age, I know 01:06:26.957 --> 01:06:31.207 that, but it's just in- it's interesting that he's also somebody who talks 01:06:31.207 --> 01:06:33.507 about Christianity, and he talks about, 01:06:34.507 --> 01:06:36.147 Paul: Yeah, the miracle of God and stuff like that. 01:06:36.177 --> 01:06:36.707 Heather: Yeah. 01:06:37.307 --> 01:06:37.767 Yeah. 01:06:37.827 --> 01:06:41.147 And I was like, huh, that's interesting, the, the two people that talk about it 01:06:41.147 --> 01:06:49.707 the most, they're the ones that perish right before we're moving into this idea 01:06:49.707 --> 01:06:51.477 that maybe it's okay to talk to them. 01:06:52.117 --> 01:06:55.087 I'm not saying that it's… that's just where my brain goes. 01:06:55.107 --> 01:06:56.067 I'm not saying that it's true. 01:06:56.077 --> 01:06:59.357 I'm just saying that it's interesting that, um- 01:06:59.387 --> 01:07:00.647 Paul: No, totally interesting. 01:07:00.757 --> 01:07:05.597 I mean, I don't know why, but maybe this could be, I don't know, this 01:07:05.617 --> 01:07:10.107 might be my last comment for this, this field right here that for tonight, 01:07:10.167 --> 01:07:17.427 conversation, why now am I seeing conversations sparking up again between 01:07:17.427 --> 01:07:23.017 the whole reptilians and the grays again? 01:07:24.017 --> 01:07:24.427 Heather: Yeah. 01:07:24.457 --> 01:07:27.697 I did notice that too, that it's such a David Icke thing, and David Icke is what? 01:07:27.697 --> 01:07:28.407 2000? 01:07:29.357 --> 01:07:29.597 Paul: Yeah. 01:07:29.977 --> 01:07:30.437 Heather: Yeah. 01:07:31.297 --> 01:07:33.967 Now all of a sudden it's back in circulation. 01:07:34.007 --> 01:07:36.287 We're all, we're all of a sudden talking about the Dracos again. 01:07:36.347 --> 01:07:37.237 I did notice that. 01:07:38.237 --> 01:07:39.370 Paul: Yeah, and the reptilians again. 01:07:39.370 --> 01:07:39.617 Heather: Mm-hmm. 01:07:39.617 --> 01:07:43.097 Paul: So, uh, uh, again, going back to that comment about starting 01:07:43.097 --> 01:07:46.307 a war or being in a war, that's why I'm starting to wonder. 01:07:47.307 --> 01:07:52.217 Heather: Yeah, because that was the whole David Icke sitch, was that they're bad. 01:07:52.217 --> 01:07:54.037 That they're bad, they're the Illuminati. 01:07:54.514 --> 01:07:55.704 Elizondo again. 01:07:56.104 --> 01:07:56.404 Paul: Yep. 01:07:56.494 --> 01:07:57.224 Heather: Security. 01:07:57.824 --> 01:08:00.694 Uh, they're, they're trying to create this new world order. 01:08:01.694 --> 01:08:01.774 Paul: Mm-hmm. 01:08:01.774 --> 01:08:04.504 Heather: I have the book, The Reptilians and the New World Order. 01:08:04.694 --> 01:08:05.314 It's a great book. 01:08:05.724 --> 01:08:06.014 Um- 01:08:06.024 --> 01:08:06.634 Paul: It is a good book 01:08:06.704 --> 01:08:08.024 Heather: fan fiction, but it's a great book. 01:08:08.574 --> 01:08:09.224 But yeah. 01:08:09.224 --> 01:08:13.544 So like, it's funny 'cause when I read that book, I was like, "This is bullshit." 01:08:13.564 --> 01:08:15.194 But now, like, it's kinda coming true. 01:08:15.194 --> 01:08:15.294 It's like- It's 01:08:15.314 --> 01:08:16.114 Paul: canon again, yeah. 01:08:16.114 --> 01:08:16.374 Yeah, 01:08:16.504 --> 01:08:16.804 Heather: I know. 01:08:17.794 --> 01:08:18.094 Paul: Yep. 01:08:18.684 --> 01:08:24.654 Heather: But I just wonder, like, are, are there gonna be good aliens and bad aliens? 01:08:24.684 --> 01:08:27.614 Like, we're gonna have the g- the tall whites, and of course 01:08:27.614 --> 01:08:28.614 the Nordics 'cause they look- 01:08:28.624 --> 01:08:28.644 Jody: Yeah 01:08:28.654 --> 01:08:30.074 Heather: like humans, right? 01:08:30.544 --> 01:08:33.474 All the pretty aliens are gonna be good, and then all the reptilians 01:08:33.474 --> 01:08:38.054 and the man- the mantids are all gonna be the bad aliens. 01:08:39.054 --> 01:08:42.174 Paul: Not all of the mantis is from what I understand, so yeah. 01:08:44.084 --> 01:08:45.814 Heather: But are, are we classifying them now? 01:08:45.814 --> 01:08:46.914 Is this like, you know? 01:08:47.914 --> 01:08:50.424 Paul: I don't know, but I just noticed that, and I was just 01:08:50.424 --> 01:08:51.894 like, "What's going on here?" 01:08:51.984 --> 01:08:56.944 So- … that goes back to the, what's his name, that supposedly 01:08:56.984 --> 01:08:59.194 came during, um, what was it? 01:08:59.324 --> 01:09:05.994 Uh, uh, uh, uh, 1999 to 2000, the time travel guy from 2036, and then 01:09:05.994 --> 01:09:08.134 he vanished like two month later. 01:09:09.104 --> 01:09:12.164 Vanished maybe, with quotations for the listeners. 01:09:12.244 --> 01:09:12.504 Yeah. 01:09:13.504 --> 01:09:14.024 I don't know. 01:09:14.924 --> 01:09:18.884 But then again, what that, quote, time traveler, unquote, said, some 01:09:18.884 --> 01:09:21.124 of the stuff did kinda happen. 01:09:22.124 --> 01:09:23.724 Anyway, that, that's my thoughts. 01:09:23.724 --> 01:09:25.354 And that, and I'm gonna stick to it. 01:09:26.354 --> 01:09:30.844 Heather: I just… So just from my experience talking to ultraterrestrials 01:09:30.844 --> 01:09:34.064 or channeling ultraterrestrials or aliens or whatever the hell 01:09:34.064 --> 01:09:35.144 you want to call, call them. 01:09:35.244 --> 01:09:38.004 Um, I like ultraterrestrial 'cause it's kind of like if 01:09:38.004 --> 01:09:38.944 it's a fairy, it's a fairy. 01:09:38.944 --> 01:09:40.674 If it's an alien, great. 01:09:41.234 --> 01:09:42.044 Whatever it is. 01:09:43.044 --> 01:09:46.514 A, one of the things that I saw were dark side of the moon stuff. 01:09:46.514 --> 01:09:49.854 Like, like, "Hey, we're here. We already have a base." But the other 01:09:49.854 --> 01:09:53.264 thing that I thought was interesting is it's always about war or missiles. 01:09:53.704 --> 01:09:54.724 Like, I see a lot of missiles. 01:09:54.724 --> 01:09:55.504 I see a lot of war. 01:09:55.504 --> 01:09:58.174 I see a lot of things in space that aren't supposed to be there, that 01:09:58.174 --> 01:09:59.484 they're like, "Hey, by the way." 01:09:59.984 --> 01:10:03.234 Um, but, but there is something to that. 01:10:03.244 --> 01:10:07.484 There is something to this… Whatever we did with nuclear 01:10:07.494 --> 01:10:09.124 power, whatever we're doing with- 01:10:09.134 --> 01:10:09.144 Jody: Mm 01:10:09.974 --> 01:10:14.334 … Heather: energy has so much to do with 01:10:14.834 --> 01:10:17.674 The phenomenon, whatever it is, whatever you wanna call it. 01:10:17.694 --> 01:10:18.234 It, it's- 01:10:18.244 --> 01:10:20.364 Paul: Destroying our world, which is- 01:10:20.464 --> 01:10:21.004 Heather: Yeah 01:10:21.024 --> 01:10:22.474 … Paul: what they don't want us to do. 01:10:22.734 --> 01:10:26.694 Which we heard a long time ago by one of the alien- 01:10:26.704 --> 01:10:27.264 Heather: Mm-hmm 01:10:27.264 --> 01:10:32.944 … Paul: that we need to start to respect the planet and keep it clean. 01:10:33.614 --> 01:10:34.044 Heather: Right. 01:10:34.384 --> 01:10:38.424 I was talking to, uh, somebody I know who does CE5 stuff, 01:10:38.424 --> 01:10:40.714 and, um, we were talking… 01:10:40.754 --> 01:10:42.824 I don't know if we talked about this before, but we were talking about 01:10:42.824 --> 01:10:47.304 how, like, we keep seeing stuff about Atlantis or, like, the destruction of 01:10:47.304 --> 01:10:49.444 the planet or, like, don't do that again. 01:10:50.064 --> 01:10:54.474 But then Stephanie said, "What if it's the future not the past we're 01:10:54.474 --> 01:10:59.303 looking at?" And, the CE5 guy said, "It's funny that you say that," 01:11:00.803 --> 01:11:01.813 because a lot of people think that. 01:11:01.853 --> 01:11:03.973 A lot of people think that we're not tapping into 01:11:03.973 --> 01:11:05.773 Atlantis like we think we are. 01:11:06.433 --> 01:11:10.543 We're tapping into what's gonna happen next, and they're using Atlantis 01:11:10.573 --> 01:11:15.803 as, like, the, They're showing us Atlantis to show us what's, what 01:11:15.963 --> 01:11:18.060 is gonna happen going forward. 01:11:18.796 --> 01:11:20.856 Jody: That's interesting 'cause you've already touched on that a 01:11:20.856 --> 01:11:22.406 few times in this conversation. 01:11:23.406 --> 01:11:23.896 Paul: Mm-hmm. 01:11:23.896 --> 01:11:25.426 ' Jody: Cause we were talking about saucers, right? 01:11:25.806 --> 01:11:28.556 And, like, they were getting us ready for what comes next, the 01:11:28.556 --> 01:11:30.226 triangular shaped objects, right? 01:11:30.226 --> 01:11:33.406 And then, y- you know, so yeah, that's… I think you're onto something there. 01:11:33.856 --> 01:11:36.646 Heather: Yeah.. I think that's… and I think, you know, we were talking 01:11:36.646 --> 01:11:42.316 about how, like, the '40s there was a ton of, of UFOs, and then in, in 01:11:42.316 --> 01:11:47.046 the '70s, and then 2000s, and now we're, like, heavily in it again. 01:11:47.056 --> 01:11:51.846 I think any time there's an, like you said, there has to 01:11:51.846 --> 01:11:52.706 be something that's going on. 01:11:52.706 --> 01:11:53.826 Maybe we don't know about it. 01:11:53.836 --> 01:11:56.076 Maybe we do have some kind of new technology. 01:11:56.376 --> 01:12:01.816 Seems like now, because I'm deep in the, the lore of the scientists that 01:12:01.816 --> 01:12:04.006 are all dead, it's all free energy, man. 01:12:04.016 --> 01:12:07.356 It's all oceans and free energy, and I'm like, "Mm." 01:12:07.986 --> 01:12:09.516 Paul: And bending of gravity. 01:12:09.566 --> 01:12:10.496 Heather: And bending of gravity. 01:12:10.496 --> 01:12:10.576 Paul: Probably. 01:12:10.576 --> 01:12:14.806 Heather: I'm like, why, why are USOs so popular right now? 01:12:14.836 --> 01:12:18.116 Have you noticed that we talk about USOs more than UFOs now? 01:12:18.466 --> 01:12:19.856 Jody: Mm-hmm. 01:12:20.036 --> 01:12:20.066 Yes. 01:12:20.686 --> 01:12:20.866 Heather: What's going on in the water. 01:12:20.866 --> 01:12:26.456 But, like, half of these scientists, funny enough, were trying to figure out 01:12:26.466 --> 01:12:31.526 what was going on in the water on other planets, and how that relates to energy. 01:12:31.946 --> 01:12:34.946 And then I was like, well, that's interesting, because all of a sudden 01:12:34.946 --> 01:12:40.526 we're really interested in the water, and why the USOs are going underwater. 01:12:41.146 --> 01:12:42.296 And then I'm like 01:12:42.946 --> 01:12:44.176 Paul: m- Great places to hide. 01:12:44.356 --> 01:12:44.996 Heather: Right. 01:12:45.006 --> 01:12:47.026 And just, like, energy, free energy. 01:12:47.026 --> 01:12:47.616 Why? 01:12:47.986 --> 01:12:51.416 Maybe that's what we're not seeing, is that we're moving into an age 01:12:51.416 --> 01:12:55.256 of free energy, and that's why we're gonna have an outcropping of- 01:12:55.266 --> 01:12:56.216 Jody: That makes sense 01:12:56.636 --> 01:12:57.666 Heather: of disclosure. 01:12:57.696 --> 01:13:01.846 That's our n- a new thing now, because we, it seems like there's a pattern. 01:13:01.886 --> 01:13:02.336 I don't know. 01:13:02.356 --> 01:13:02.716 It's- 01:13:02.746 --> 01:13:03.016 Jody: Yeah 01:13:04.016 --> 01:13:06.326 … Heather: we're in a really fricking weird time right now. 01:13:06.926 --> 01:13:08.476 This timeline is crazy 01:13:09.476 --> 01:13:12.466 Paul: Well, on that note, I'm gonna end the conversation right there 01:13:12.466 --> 01:13:13.976 because I think that's perfect. 01:13:14.156 --> 01:13:17.276 Anyway, so my name was Paul Dulski. 01:13:17.286 --> 01:13:19.946 You can find everything at hauntedvermont.org. 01:13:20.246 --> 01:13:24.206 And, um, yeah, if you have something that you wanna talk about, you can 01:13:24.206 --> 01:13:25.946 reach out there through the contact form 01:13:26.946 --> 01:13:28.036 Uh, Heather, 01:13:28.886 --> 01:13:30.856 Heather: it's nvusalien.com. 01:13:30.996 --> 01:13:33.436 My big mouth is over there talking about things I probably shouldn't be 01:13:33.496 --> 01:13:37.196 talking about, but it's N-V-U-S alien.com 01:13:44.095 --> 01:13:47.295 Jody: Thanks to Heather and Paul for setting some time aside and have 01:13:47.295 --> 01:13:48.975 another, uh, round table discussion. 01:13:49.305 --> 01:13:51.153 always a great time, talking to those guys. 01:13:52.176 --> 01:13:56.621 don't forget to Visit our website, podcast of the paranormal, all one word, dot com. 01:13:57.131 --> 01:14:01.045 We just started a sort of like a blog, page and I've been using 01:14:01.045 --> 01:14:03.795 that talk about some of the things that are on my mind and, you know, 01:14:03.795 --> 01:14:05.565 give our listeners some updates. 01:14:05.945 --> 01:14:08.415 So anything that might catch our attention, we might put up there. 01:14:08.908 --> 01:14:14.207 It's another channel of information to kinda, You know, connect with our audience 01:14:14.807 --> 01:14:16.247 something other than the podcast. 01:14:17.057 --> 01:14:18.617 So that's just something new we're trying out. 01:14:18.767 --> 01:14:21.767 And get some news and updates on there and you'll see them come 01:14:21.767 --> 01:14:23.207 through, on our social media. 01:14:24.007 --> 01:14:28.870 So next time we have John and Keriann from Wyoming Valley Ghost Tours, this 01:14:28.870 --> 01:14:31.030 interview I feel was a long time coming. 01:14:31.590 --> 01:14:34.140 It was a really great interview and I think you guys are gonna enjoy it. 01:14:34.400 --> 01:14:36.630 So we'll see you next time on Podcast of the Paranormal.